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Author Topic: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)  (Read 272738 times)

Vilanat

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1230 on: December 25, 2016, 12:40:18 am »

Yeah yeah everything is Obama's fault, Israel is infallible and its settlement constructions has no opposition in the West whatsoever
Thanks Obama

That has got nothing to do with Egypt-US relations.

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No, written in the article is that an attempt to improve relations was made after an Israeli commando raid killed 10 turks and prompted the Turks to cut off all defence ties and expel the Israeli ambassador. Who are you trying to delude with fake news when the reality is before you?
*And written in that article is the reforging of ties and exchanging Ambassadors back together. you conflate stuff that happened in 2010 and stuff that is happening now.

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This is hilarious
Started off with a simple request for examples where Israel has taken US money, messed with US diplomacy and complained that the US does not support them enough despite being the largest recipient of military aid in history. I gave examples because MSH is sleepy or something, and then the goalposts moved to how double standards were being applied and I showed how that was wrong, now the goalposts have moved again to this

No, I started with a simple request for examples how Israel starts shit between US and its Allies. you jumped in with irrelevant nonsense about Israel foreign relations.

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No sources, it didn't happen. If you're going to claim another country is conquering another one you better bring sources mate

Google “Operation Euphrates Shield”.
*When sources are being required for basic common knowledge, the discussion is futile, but i will get to that later.

Quote
I'm saying it's a complicated issue because it's a complicated issue, the USA backs the territorial sovereignty of Turkey yet Israel wants to "rightfully" balkanize other countries unilaterally or else is completely disregarding of its actions controversy in BRICS or how it has a become a serious source of concern amongst the US who supports Israel militarily all continuing from past offensives. No one is asking for Israel to not retaliate against attacks, they're far more concerned as MSH succinctly summed up with how Israel accepts vast sums of US military aid and yet acts unilaterally even if it threatens the stability of the Middle East, causes humanitarian crises which exacerbates the EU's troubles and actively undermines US foreign policy. All of these things makes it increasingly harder for anyone in the West to support Israel, because it openly disregards international law or as before, abuses its relationships with its allies. This is behaviour that is expected of belligerent nations, not allied ones, certainly not dependent ones - it's simply untenable and will shoot yourself in the foot

BRIC? LFMO, hey, i got another organization that isn't fond of Israel's reaction to rockets launched at it from Gaza - OPEC. lol.

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The five members of the UN Security Council have not reacted forcefully or taken appropriate measures to hold the Iranian government accountable for the violations. Generally speaking, China and Russia, which enjoy their strategic, geopolitical and economic alliance with Tehran and favor Iran’s counterbalance stance against the US and its allies, have used Iran’s line of argument for launching the ballistic missiles.
France, Britain and Germany, which are much to the left of the US, or sometimes follow in the footsteps of Washington’s policy towards Iran, have not taken these military maneuvers seriously.
The US has stopped short of calling Iran’s actions as violations of UN Security Council resolutions. President Obama will continue to overlook Iran’s belligerent actions, including ballistic missile launches and the detention of US sailors by the Iranian forces, until he leaves office. He desires what he sees as his crowning foreign policy “achievement”, the nuclear agreement, to remain intact.
President Obama is concerned that holding Iran accountable for these violations might force the Iranian leaders to abandon the nuclear deal, thus causing its failure.
Furthermore, France, Britain and other European countries have less incentive to publicly hold Iran responsible, because of the increasing economic and trade ties with Tehran particularly in the energy sector (oil and gas).
So yep, Bibi acting by himself to stop the five security council members and Iran working together for a long-term diplomatic solution that would allow Iran to begin reintegrating into the world economy for the prosperity of its people whilst under observance by the USA to reduce its breakout time to a year. Bibi acting unilaterally to sabotage international diplomacy using leaked information from confidential discussions gained through espionage on an ally - to directly alter US foreign policy. Do you really think anyone can get away with such actions with no backlash? It is foolish to think so
Oh wait sorry, nah, this is a "catastrophe" and we must blame the Arabs for some reason.

Thanks for the short lesson in history. The Iran deal is a catastrophe precisely because Obama is not willing to enforce it and Iran, the religiously fanatic human rights hell, is acting like it now owns the Middle East and are ethnically cleansing Sunnis in parts of Iraq, Syria and Yemen, not because of some black ink shapes on white papers.

Where did i say we must blame the Arabs? i didn't and since you are now beginning to put words into my mouth, i think there's no point in any further discussion.

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Qatari Foreign Minister Khalid al-Attiya said the Iran deal represented the best option for regional stability.
Your google powers are weak or you just stop at the first result which suits you.

*Since you obviously just google stuff to try and find the answers without having meaningful prior knowledge, this makes it a dull discussion so i consider it over, thank you.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 12:42:29 am by Vilanat »
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1231 on: December 25, 2016, 01:42:43 am »

Wait, so trying to become informed rather than already being informed (with sources that are somehow automatically better?) is now grounds for dismissing a discussion as worthless?

Am I missing something here?
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Vilanat

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1232 on: December 25, 2016, 03:53:00 am »

While he did ask for sources in order to get informed in some parts, and for those i am sorry for not providing and for patronizing, In others it felt to me like he was just trying to win an argument.

Regardless, Turkey's conquest of northern Syria is old and basic knowledge in my opinion.

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Guardian G.I.

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1233 on: December 25, 2016, 05:02:51 am »

Russian military's Tu-134 Tu-154 en route to Syria has crashed in the Black Sea. 93 people are dead, including 65 members of the Alexandrov Ensemble (except the lead singer), the head of Fair Aid charity organization Elizaveta Glinka and several Russian television crews.

Red Army Choir's fans are in shock, European-minded Ukrainians and the like are gloating as usual.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 08:56:13 am by Guardian G.I. »
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Sheb

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1234 on: December 25, 2016, 08:27:54 am »

Any hint as to the cause? I'm to fly on Aeroflot in a few days, I hope their plane are better serviced.
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Jimmy

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1235 on: December 25, 2016, 08:47:22 am »

That's awful. My heart goes out to all the friends and families who've lost loved ones on what's supposed to be the most joyful day of the year. My wife and children are overseas visiting family, and I can honestly say this is one of my worst fears.
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Sergarr

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1236 on: December 25, 2016, 10:23:25 am »

Most joyful day of the year in Russia is actually January 1st, the New Year's Day. Still, not super-good.
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Erkki

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1237 on: December 25, 2016, 10:44:35 am »

In their memoir, I present the Leningrad Cowboys & Red Russian Army Choir: Sweet Home Alabama. I think this was in 1996 or -97, I saw it live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UuFJoexdlU

edit: "Thank you very many!"  :P
« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 10:47:38 am by Erkki »
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redwallzyl

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1238 on: December 25, 2016, 11:00:08 am »

Its a rather disastrous December for Russia isn't it.
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Baffler

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1239 on: December 25, 2016, 12:08:40 pm »

Quote
No sources, it didn't happen. If you're going to claim another country is conquering another one you better bring sources mate

Google “Operation Euphrates Shield”.
*When sources are being required for basic common knowledge, the discussion is futile, but i will get to that later.

Operation Euphrates Shield is not a conquest. As opposed to Israel's """""intervention""""" in the Golan Heights, the Turks don't plan on staying, because Turkey is actually held accountable for their actions and can't just bite off chunks of their neighbors without someone doing something about it.
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Even if you found a suitable opening, I doubt it would prove all too satisfying. And it might leave some nasty wounds, depending on the moral high ground's geology.
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Vilanat

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1240 on: December 25, 2016, 12:21:53 pm »

Did Syria invade Turkey like it did to Israel?

And yeah, Let's wait and see how long will it take Turkey to pull out.

And btw, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus Yeah. LOL.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 12:36:57 pm by Vilanat »
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Sergarr

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1241 on: December 25, 2016, 02:53:52 pm »

OK I've looked through the UN resolution and I think I've found the reason why Israel is so pissed off:

“1.   Reaffirms that the establishment by Israel of settlements in the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, has no legal validity and constitutes a flagrant violation under international law and a major obstacle to the achievement of the two-State solution and a just, lasting and comprehensive peace;

“2.   Reiterates its demand that Israel immediately and completely cease all settlement activities in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem, and that it fully respect all of its legal obligations in this regard;

“3.   Underlines that it will not recognize any changes to the 4 June 1967 lines, including with regard to Jerusalem, other than those agreed by the parties through negotiations;
East Jerusalem contains multiple sites of holy and other extremely major significance for Jews (like Western Wall, Temple Mt. , and Jewish quarter - which, apparently, only technically counts as a "settlement" because it was re-established after 1948, when they were forcibly expelled by the Arab League's genocidal onslaught), and this UN treaty has effectively told to them "get out, these don't belong to you".

These ain't just some random settlements in the West Bank we're talking about.
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martinuzz

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1242 on: December 25, 2016, 05:09:40 pm »

Tbh, the best solution for East Jerusalem would be a permanent UN peacekeeping force occupying, protecting, and allowing access to the holy sites for all three abrahamic religions.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 05:12:41 pm by martinuzz »
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Kot

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1243 on: December 25, 2016, 05:24:12 pm »

something something KNIGHTS TEMPLAR!
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Baffler

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1244 on: December 25, 2016, 05:57:09 pm »

Did Syria invade Turkey like it did to Israel?

And yeah, Let's wait and see how long will it take Turkey to pull out.

And btw, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus Yeah. LOL.

So you have no idea if Turkey is going to stay or not, and just guessed based on how you don't like Turkey? It's also interesting that you would speak negatively of Turkey's actions in Cyprus. From the article you linked:

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As a result of the Turkish invasion, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe stated that the demographic structure of the island has been continuously modified as a result of the deliberate policies of the Turks. Following the occupation of Northern Cyprus, civilian settlers from Turkey began arriving on the island. Despite the lack of consensus on the exact figures, all parties concerned admitted that Turkish nationals began arriving in the northern part of the island in 1975.[150] It was suggested that over 120,000 settlers came to Cyprus from mainland Turkey.[150][dead link] This was a violation of the Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, which prohibits an occupier from transferring or deporting parts of its own civilian population into an occupied territory.[151]

Does the bolded part sound familiar to you?

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Even if you found a suitable opening, I doubt it would prove all too satisfying. And it might leave some nasty wounds, depending on the moral high ground's geology.
Location subject to periodic change.
Baffler likes silver, walnut trees, the color green, tanzanite, and dogs for their loyalty. When possible he prefers to consume beef, iced tea, and cornbread. He absolutely detests ticks.
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