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[Erkki]

I was suspecting something like that. This is why all regular (i.e. not Turkey) air border control operations have the guard airforce establish a visual contact with the airspace violators, to prevent bullshit like that.

Or they use the several frequencies and not just the local/international emergency one. Most of the time it isnt(globally) overly difficult to contact military aircraft provided they want to communicate.

Or that, too. Which add more evidence to the version that Turkey's airforce did not want to actually communicate and was just itching to shoot someone. Extremely unprofessional.

The whole mess is unprofessional. Still, apparently good stuff to make propaganda out of, it sinks into people as easy as free vodka.

Personally I have no problem if moustache-waxers and Ivans want preoccupy each other for a year or three.

[Sergarr]

I do. ISIS are still fucking alive and kicking. They must be dealt with first, that is impossible to happen if there is a war between Russia and a fucking member of NATO.

[Erkki]

I do. ISIS are still fucking alive and kicking. They must be dealt with first, that is impossible to happen if there is a war between Russia and a fucking member of NATO.

Speaking of which, when you do think you guys will start airlifting the Iranian Revolutionary Guard(that is in readiness atm) to Latakia and switch from bombing mostly FSA & CO. to ISIS?

[Vilanat]

Here's a list of 10 Iranian generals who found themselves dead in Syria.
http://lebwindow.net/178342

[miljan]

That's the gist of the "And [it] isn't going to help..." bit.  Either it is an empty threat and doesn't mean anything or its a non-empty threat that will be accompanied by more 'border-scrapers' from the Russians which Turkey's not likely to back down from, merely station counter-counter-measures of its own, etc.

Its not a empty threat for sure. Its there as a warning that next time turkey will not get a easy way of doing something similar.

Anyway for Ukrainian Ranger

Behold the russian teleportation technology for transporting S400 that is in use, i dont know, 40, 50 years now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuNdcJx6PLA

In other news:
Two journalist in turkey got accused of espionage and are threaten with life time prison for announcing and publishing a video where turkish secret servers was smuggling arms with trucks to terrorist organization in syria. The official respond from turkey government is that they were smuggling guns just to rebels not terrorist .


Heavy fighting and retreating of turkish backed rebels in areas where su 24 crashed.

There will be a meeting on 30 nov between russia and turkey presidents (edit: that will probably not happen after all, as russian doesnt want to talk with turkey until it says its sorry xD... acting like kids with weapons)

[smjjames]

http://www.janes.com/article/56295/russian-su-24m-communications-equipment-blamed-for-shootdown

Notice the use of the word "may". Its a tiny article and almost no reference to sources, but Janes has some reputation when it comes to military intelligence... I'm expecting them to cover this more in the future.

edit: actually its just a sample of the long article.

I was suspecting something like that. This is why all regular (i.e. not Turkey) air border control operations have the guard airforce establish a visual contact with the airspace violators, to prevent bullshit like that.

Yeah, the whole communication equipment issue thing is something that has been nagging me, what if, just what if BOTH sides are telling the truth? Too bad we can't check the plane if there was some communication equipment problem.

And yeah, the whole thing is extremely unprofessional.

[Sheb]

And yeah, the whole thing is extremely unprofessional.

You're assuming Turkey didn't want to down a Russian jet.

[Sergarr]

And yeah, the whole thing is extremely unprofessional.

You're assuming Turkey didn't want to down a Russian jet.

That would make them unprofessional AND stupid. Unprofessional because of Erdogan's administration completely abandoning diplomacy in favour of "Turkey STRONK", stupid because he failed completely to prevent Russia from bombing Turkey-related rebels. Which is what he most likely wanted to happen.

[sprinkled chariot]

http://lenta.ru/news/2015/11/27/zhirinovski/ 

Well, the leader of liberal-democratical party suggests nuking Stambul.
Most liberally-democratical way of solving problems.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

That is why I am proud when Russians call me a neo-nazi or fascist. In their twisted world everything has opposite meaning.

[Erkki]

And yeah, the whole thing is extremely unprofessional.

You're assuming Turkey didn't want to down a Russian jet.

That would make them unprofessional AND stupid. Unprofessional because of Erdogan's administration completely abandoning diplomacy in favour of "Turkey STRONK", stupid because he failed completely to prevent Russia from bombing Turkey-related rebels. Which is what he most likely wanted to happen.

Erdogan's first goal may still be strengthening his autocracy and his partys political control over Turkey - in that context it may have made sense. Similarly to PKK being once again used as the scapegoat for someone else's(this time ISIS suicide bombers') actions. Creating common enemies, self-victimization and all that. Russia shooting down an F-16 from across the border would have been just as good if not better, but this kind of event is most probably much easier to manufacture. Turkey having been the shooter.

Russia Putin & CO seem to be also using all possible PR value from the incident.

[smjjames]

http://lenta.ru/news/2015/11/27/zhirinovski/ 

Well, the leader of liberal-democratical party suggests nuking Stambul.
Most liberally-democratical way of solving problems.

Google translated version

To be more precise, he wants to nuke the Bosporus strait to try and create a tsunami that will flood Istanbul along with the usual destruction that a nuke would cause.

[Sergarr]

That's the same person who in ~1994 wanted to put giant fans on the border with Estonia to flung radioactive dust at their territory, isn't it?

[nenjin]

That's some Bond villain-level shit right there.

[smjjames]

That's the same person who in ~1994 wanted to put giant fans on the border with Estonia to flung radioactive dust at their territory, isn't it?

I don't know, he's your crazy politician, not mine.