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[Sergarr]

It's in English (all air international dialogue is done in English), but the problem is not in the language, it's in the message. Here's the transcript someone made that I've found on the Internet (slightly edited to remove the annoying smilies):

[0:05] Unknown ?? zero-four-zero thirtyforty? mile. This is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading to south immediately, change your heading to south.

[0:18] Unknown air ?? position to ?? zero-zero-five radial thirty five miles ?? Air Force speaking. You are ??. Change your heading south immediately, change your heading south.

[0:29] Unknown air traffic position to ?? two-three-zero radial ??eight miles. Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately, change your heading to south.

[0:41] Unknown air traffic ?? ?? zero-five-zero radial thirty four miles, this is Turkish airforce speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately.

[0:51] The unknown air traffic position to ?? two-three-zero radial thirty one, this is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately.

[1:03] The unknown air traffic position to ?? zero-one-zero radial twenty six miles this is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately.

[1:13] The unknown air traffic position to ?? zero-two-zero radial thirty miles, this is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately.

[1:24] The unknown air traffic position to ?? zero-two-zero radial twenty six miles, this is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately.

[1:36] The unknown air traffic position to ?? zero-two-zero radial twenty six miles, this is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately.

[1:47] The unknown air traffic position to ?? zero-two-zero radial twenty two miles, this is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately.

[1:57] The unknown air traffic position to ?? zero-two-zero radial twenty six miles, this is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish air space. Change your heading south immediately.

[2:05] The unknown air traffic position to ?? zero-one-zero radial twenty six miles, this is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately.

Notice the lack of any warnings about "you're entering Turkish airspace, leave immediately or you'll be shot down". I've listened to it specifically, and I can say that I can't recognize anything that sounds like that, as well (it doesn't help that it's nearly unintelligible at the end).

Therefore, if this transcript is correct, it means that Turkey's airforce has switched from "you're approaching our airspace" to shooting with missiles, skipping the warning about Su-24 actually entering their airspace proper (which is unsurprising, considering that Su-24 overflew over a grand total of 3 km of Turkey's territory in 17 seconds).

Suffice to say I don't see Turkey-Russia relationships improving any time soon.

[smjjames]

According to the surviving Russian pilot, it sounds like they didn't get any communication from Turkey, not even 'you're approaching Turkish airspace.'

What would be nice is confirmation of the crash site and radar data from a third or maybe even fourth party.

[Sergarr]

According to the surviving Russian pilot, it sounds like they didn't get any communication from Turkey, not even 'you're approaching Turkish airspace.'

What would be nice is confirmation of the crash site and radar data from a third or maybe even fourth party.

I don't think there are any "third" parties that are realistically capable of doing that.

[smjjames]

According to the surviving Russian pilot, it sounds like they didn't get any communication from Turkey, not even 'you're approaching Turkish airspace.'

What would be nice is confirmation of the crash site and radar data from a third or maybe even fourth party.

I don't think there are any "third" parties that are realistically capable of doing that.

Nobody unbiased anyway. Another BBC article says that the U.S. saw indications of the jet passing through for a matter of seconds and that it had been warned. Obviously we'd be on Turkeys side.

[WealthyRadish]

(slightly edited to remove the annoying smilies)

There's a box you can check under "Attachments and other options" to disable them. Useful for all those "???" and "8)"s.

That transcript is interesting, and it makes me wonder what the circumstances were in that control room. Whether it was internationally justifiable or not, I can only think it started either as the commanding officer getting twitchy and giving the order out of line, or as a change in procedure brought on by the Turkish military to unquestioningly shoot a Russian military aircraft if it violates airspace.

[Bouchart]

Hackers take down ISIS website, replace it with ad for Prozac.

[Loud Whispers]

Russia considering switching imports it needs from Turkey to Israel, the choice of nation no doubt being a deliberate insult to Turkey

Spoiler: it's time (click to show/hide)

Yes, this is some hilarious news. Also, that picture. Where is Russia image from, seem familiar? Also also, lol Serbia borders clearly drawn by anti-Serb elements, There is some rightful Serb clay left, right and bottom still unclaimed. Also 3, Lichtenstein being of no significance makes me hurt.

Zdzisław Beksiński, Polish artist who specialized in dystopian fuckery, his stuff is one of those arts that everyone knows just by sheer cultural osmosis, like a subliminal imprint

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I love his art, even H. R. Giger doesn't match it in disturbing imagery.

[martinuzz]

We should be glad that Russia is not the USA, or it would have had Turkey for Thanksgiving.

[Strife26]

  http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/2015/11/25/turkey-downs-russian-plane-joins-with-islamic-state-u-s-should-drop-new-ottoman-empire-as-ally/?utm_content=bufferbe648&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Ugly link, but a nice article. I'd kinda like to see Turkey getting kicked to the curb, Kurdistan getting carved into a western aligned nation. Russia gets to keep Syria in its influence, the West gets to replace a poisonous ally with a better one, Kurdistan has a better chance of stability than anything else.

[Starver]

The S-400 anti-aircraft missile system have arrived at the Hmeimim airbase

For use against who?  Daesh don't have aircraft, SFAIK; I'm not sure anybody local other than the Syrian regime and 'fellow' international forces against terrorism have aircraft.  And shooting down a Turkish aircraft (across/on the border) isn't going to help, and the possibility of the warheads with 120-400km range 'doing an MH17' is going to cause tension.  Never mind if something like that happens.

Haven't you read the last several pages? It's because Turkey shot down a Russian jet and now the Russians are putting that there because they're threatening (and actually have a right to) to shoot down any Turkish aircraft that does do that.

Of course though, both sides ramping up the rhetoric and not backing down isn't helping.

That's the gist of the "And [it] isn't going to help..." bit.  Either it is an empty threat and doesn't mean anything or its a non-empty threat that will be accompanied by more 'border-scrapers' from the Russians which Turkey's not likely to back down from, merely station counter-counter-measures of its own, etc.

And I tend towards the latter, to be honest.  Then at best it ends up as two one-legged men in an arse-kicking contest¹.  I've got a friend who honestly predicts that (without de-escalation) there'll eventually be tactical nukes involved at some point... Beyond my own vision, but there's plenty of ground that can be covered between those positions, even without considering the dragging in of the other countries expressing interests in that area...

So let it be an empty threat.  "We haz cheezburgers bigger gunz", perhaps.  Speaking moderately loudly, holding their big stick, but also happening to no longer cruise their Declasse Tornado Soft-Tops along the borders of the other gang's neighbourhood quite so flagrantly.

(But what do I know?  The mindset of the Russian and the Turk aren't my speciality.)


¹ Ok, so one of the men is Big Ivan and the other is only Moderately Large Mustafa², but the bigger the man the bigger the targeted arse.

² As in Ataturk, lest anyone think I'm going the way of an irreverent toponym.

[Erkki]

http://www.janes.com/article/56295/russian-su-24m-communications-equipment-blamed-for-shootdown

Notice the use of the word "may". Its a tiny article and almost no reference to sources, but Janes has some reputation when it comes to military intelligence... I'm expecting them to cover this more in the future.

edit: actually its just a sample of the long article.

[Sergarr]

I was suspecting something like that. This is why all regular (i.e. not Turkey) air border control operations have the guard airforce establish a visual contact with the airspace violators, to prevent bullshit like that.

[Erkki]

I was suspecting something like that. This is why all regular (i.e. not Turkey) air border control operations have the guard airforce establish a visual contact with the airspace violators, to prevent bullshit like that.

Or they use the several frequencies and not just the local/international emergency one. Most of the time it isnt(globally) overly difficult to contact military aircraft provided they want to communicate.

[Sergarr]

I was suspecting something like that. This is why all regular (i.e. not Turkey) air border control operations have the guard airforce establish a visual contact with the airspace violators, to prevent bullshit like that.

Or they use the several frequencies and not just the local/international emergency one. Most of the time it isnt(globally) overly difficult to contact military aircraft provided they want to communicate.

Or that, too. Which add more evidence to the version that Turkey's airforce did not want to actually communicate and was just itching to shoot someone. Extremely unprofessional.