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[Sheb]

I dunno, if a Russian plane flew into American airspace and ignored 10 communications to turn back, I'm pretty sure we'd light him up too. So far they haven't actually crossed into American airspace that I can remember, just coming exceptionally close on excursions.

The communications occured when the plane was still inside Syrian Air Space, even according to Turkey. Even if we take the Turkish version of the story, the plane spent less than 20 seconds inside Turkish airspace, crossing a 3km-wide band of territory that is jutting inside Syria.

[martinuzz]

An American inquiry shows that the Russian plane was over Syria when it was shot down, but also that before that, it did indeed violate Turkish airspace very briefly.
So no, Washington does not "back Turkey's version of events" like Misko27 wrote, since Turkey claims the plane was shot over Turkish territory.
They do back Turkey in it's principal right to defend their airspace against intrusion, but that's nothing new, that's just saying "yeah, we agree with international law just like everyone else does"

In further news, apparently one pilot did not get shot, as claimed by the Turkmens. One pilot is reported to be rescued by the Syrian army, and has been returned to a Russian base in Syria now. Not sure if I believe that, since Russia has a tendency of downplaying / outright denying military losses.

Do not forget the Russian fallen soldier's mothers threatened with prison / being declared enemies of the state.

[Sheb]

So no, Washington does not "back Turkey's version of events" like Misko27 wrote, since Turkey claims the plane was shot over Turkish territory.

Did it? IIRC, the Turkish phrasing was something like "after that plane violated our airspace, our F-16 engaged and shot it down", without mentioning where exactly it was shot down. Given the even according to the Turks, the plane only spent seconds over Turkish air space, it's unlikely they shot it over their own territory.

[martinuzz]

So no, Washington does not "back Turkey's version of events" like Misko27 wrote, since Turkey claims the plane was shot over Turkish territory.

Did it? IIRC, the Turkish phrasing was something like "after that plane violated our airspace, our F-16 engaged and shot it down", without mentioning where exactly it was shot down. Given the even according to the Turks, the plane only spent seconds over Turkish air space, it's unlikely they shot it over their own territory.

Erdogan himself stated today that "the plane was shot down while over Turkey's airspace, and went down in Syria. Some pieces of the plane crashed into Turkey, wounding two civilians"

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Also, UR:

I can bet that Russia will pretend that nothing happened

It appears that you've, in fact, lost your bet.

I was talking more about about bombing something in Turkey because Russia is plain scared of Turkish military might even without NATO allies.

But yep I expected Putin to disappear  from TV for a week or so, I was wrong, Russia reacted like a hysterical woman once again. Banning tourism, starting anti-Turkish propaganda campaign "finding something"in Turkish chickens and banning its import and so on. I find it is the right kind reaction for a world power

[Erkki]

I think its entirely possible that the plane was shot at while it was still in Turkish airspace. The shooter aircraft was in immediate vicinity(the Turks claim 5 km); it could have taken 4-5 seconds for them to confirm the violation and the operator(s) to make the decision to fire and some more seconds to give the order. The missile may have been airborne for 5-7 of those 17 seconds of airspace violation, if not more, even if it hit the target right over the border or just across it. An AIM-120 will travel downrange about 3½ to 4 km during the first 7 seconds of its flight ie. while it still accelerates.

[Sergarr]

Also, UR:

I can bet that Russia will pretend that nothing happened

It appears that you've, in fact, lost your bet.

I was talking more about about bombing something in Turkey because Russia is plain scared of Turkish military might even without NATO allies.

But yep I expected Putin to disappear  from TV for a week or so, I was wrong, Russia reacted like a hysterical woman once again. Banning tourism, starting anti-Turkish propaganda campaign "finding something"in Turkish chickens and banning its import and so on. I find it is the right kind reaction for a world power

So I'm interested: what reaction would you expect from a "world power" for an incident like that? Doing nothing and pretending it didn't happen?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Aggressive and totalitarian world power: bomb the shit out of the one who dared to do that.

Other kinds of world power.: Diplomatic moves and international courts not "lets find some decease in Turkish poultry and ban its imports and suggest our tourism operators to have no business with Turkey"

[Sergarr]

Aggressive and totalitarian world power: bomb the shit out of the one who dared to do that.

That's insane. World powers don't become world powers by suiciding themselves. USA and USSR were world powers, and they didn't go to a shooting war with each other ever during the most tense moments of Cold War like Cuban Crisis.

Other kinds of world power.: Diplomatic moves and international courts not "lets find some decease in Turkish poultry and ban its imports and suggest our tourism operators to have no business with Turkey"

That just doesn't work. At all. International courts and UN resolutions can be ignored at will by anyone who is willing to do so; for instance, Israel does that. And a country which is willing to shoot at the other country's military would be certainly willing to ignore any international resolutions coming from it's opponent.

So your two proposed "solutions" are either suicidal or don't actually do anything meaningful. Thank you for answering, though. It certainly made it clear how a modern Ukrainian nationalist thinks like!

[Strife26]

*golf claps*

[Dorsidwarf]

So your two proposed "solutions" are either suicidal or don't actually do anything meaningful. Thank you for answering, though. It certainly made it clear how a modern Ukrainian nationalist thinks like!

Cut him some slack, he's got a modern and reasonable world superpower starting shooting wars and taking chunks out of his eastern border.

[miljan]

So, one of pilot survived, the other is dead, and the other pilot from one of the chopper is also dead, that is for sure now. The areas where the plain crashed and where the rebels where is getting some heavy bombardment from russia, near turkish border. They will be also sending s 400 as additional defence to syria.

Mevlut Cavusoglu (Turkey's current Minister of Foreign Affairs)  offer apology for downing of russian plane

Also there was a big explosion in ankara, but its still not sure what happened (probably not related to this).

The pilot said that he didnt get any warning from turkey and that he was sure that he was flying over syrian territory. And actually it is possible that both sides are telling the truth, but there was a technical problem in the locator/radar.

Still it is obvious that turkey did plan to shoot at russian at some point and wanted to get any type of excuse. Its probably because of recent refinery that was more directly connected to turkey and  the heavy bombardment of the rebels that are very close to them.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Strife26]

Russia is neither especially modern nor a superpower.

So your two proposed "solutions" are either suicidal or don't actually do anything meaningful. Thank you for answering, though. It certainly made it clear how a modern Ukrainian nationalist thinks like!

Cut him some slack, he's got a modern and reasonable world superpower starting shooting wars and taking chunks out of his eastern border.

[miljan]

Russia is neither especially modern nor a superpower.

So your two proposed "solutions" are either suicidal or don't actually do anything meaningful. Thank you for answering, though. It certainly made it clear how a modern Ukrainian nationalist thinks like!

Cut him some slack, he's got a modern and reasonable world superpower starting shooting wars and taking chunks out of his eastern border.

Well its more modern than most of the cournites (including most countries in europe) and is considered a regional power (with second strongest military in the world). There is unfortunately  only one supper power and that is USA