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[Frumple]

Not actually unprovoked, entirely. Above and beyond the (questionable, depending on how much trust you're willing to give a state actor with a consistent history of doing exactly what they're being accused of, heh*) airspace violations, turkey had apparently issued warnings they'd respond to attempts to further destabilize the area that the plane shot down had just bombed. Even ignoring the contradictory stories, the parallel of turkey responding to attacks against a related minority outside their border is... not unnoticed.

*Which, to be fair, is the best target to pull a spin on. Even if the plane didn't violate turkish airspace, saying they did is something a lot of people are going to buy specifically because russia has made something of a habit of doing just that.

[martinuzz]

in b4 Turkey annexes the Crimea to protect the Turkish speaking minority there from freezing to death due to no electricity.

[Bouchart]

Everyone violates everyone else's airspace.  It's just what you do when you have an airforce.

[Culise]

To be fair, though, the status of the Aegean skies are hotly disputed between Turkey and Greece, and at times militantly so.  A lot of those interceptions, as compiled by a Greek party (the University of Thessaly), would be considered by the Turks as flying through international airspace because Turkey refuses to acknowledge the Greek extension of territorial waters from 6 to 10 nautical miles in the Aegean Sea, and by extension the expansion of Greek airspace*.  Whatever the disputes are between Syria and Turkey, and myriad those certainly are, one of the few things that isn't debated is the position of the border in Hatay.  In other words, if you want to compare the situation, it'd be better to compare with another mutually acknowledged border such as, say, Armenia. 

EDIT: Added a bit on the Turkey-Greece dispute in an aside with the abbr tag, since it's interesting but not directly relevant.  Basically, though, if the two weren't allies in NATO, I wouldn't be surprised if we were talking about a brief Aegean Conflict in the 80s or very early 90s to go with the invasion of Cyprus in the 70s; that's how bad the situation felt there. 

[Shadowlord]

Did a search and found that territorial airspace extends to 12 nautical miles, "contiguous zone" (whatever that is) airspace to 24 nautical miles, and international airspace starts at 24 nautical miles according to international law. Apparently the 12 nautical miles is what matters here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters

Then searched for the aegean dispute, which sent me to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_dispute
Apparently Turkey has prevented Greece from claiming the 12 nautical mile range in international law by threatening them with war. Not terribly surprising since Turkey hates Greece.

Spoiler: Wikipedia quote (click to show/hide)

Territorial Waters

Territorial waters give the littoral state full control over air navigation in the airspace above, and partial control over shipping, although foreign ships (both civil and military) are normally guaranteed innocent passage through them. The standard width of territorial waters that countries are customarily entitled to has steadily increased in the course of the 20th century: from initially 3 nautical miles (5.6 km) at the beginning of the century, to 6 nautical miles (11 km), and currently 12 nautical miles (22 km). The current value has been enshrined in treaty law by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea of 1982 (Art.3). In the Aegean the territorial waters claimed by both sides are still at 6 miles. The possibility of an extension to 12 miles has fuelled Turkish concerns over a possible disproportionate increase in Greek-controlled space. Turkey has refused to become a member of the convention and does not consider itself bound by it. Turkey considers the convention as res inter alios acta, i.e. a treaty that can only be binding to the signing parties but not to others. Greece, which is a party to the convention, has stated that it reserves the right to apply this rule and extend its waters to 12 miles at some point in the future, although it has never actually attempted to do so. It holds that the 12 mile rule is not only treaty law but also customary law, as per the wide consensus established among the international community. Against this, Turkey argues that the special geographical properties of the Aegean Sea make a strict application of the 12 mile rule in this case illicit in the interest of equity.[2] Turkey has itself applied the customary 12 mile limit to its coasts outside the Aegean.

Tensions over the 12 mile question ran highest between the two countries in the early 1990s, when the Law of the Sea was going to come into force. On 9 June 1995, the Turkish parliament officially declared that unilateral action by Greece would constitute a casus belli, i.e. reason to go to war. This declaration has been condemned by Greece as a violation of the Charter of the United Nations, which forbids "the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state".[1]

National airspace

The national airspace is normally defined as the airspace covering a state's land territory and its adjacent territorial waters. National airspace gives the sovereign state a large degree of control over foreign air traffic. While civil aviation is normally allowed passage under international treaties, foreign military and other state aircraft (unlike military vessels in the territorial waters) do not have a right to free passage through another state's national airspace.[3] The delimitation of national airspace claimed by Greece is unique, as it does not coincide with the boundary of the territorial waters. Greece claims 10 nautical miles (19 km) of airspace, as opposed to currently 6 miles of territorial waters. Since 1974, Turkey has refused to acknowledge the validity of the outer 4-mile belt of airspace that extends beyond the Greek territorial waters. Turkey cites the statutes of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) of 1948, as containing a binding definition that both zones must coincide.[4] Against this, Greece argues that:

* its 10-nautical-mile (19 km) claim predates the ICAO statute, having been fixed in 1931, and that it was acknowledged by all its neighbours, including Turkey, before and after 1948, hence constituting an established right;[5]
* its 10-mile claim can also be interpreted as just a partial, selective use of the much wider rights guaranteed by the Law of the Sea, namely the right to a 12-mile zone both in the air and on the water;
* Greek territorial waters are set at the 6 mile boundary only because of Turkey's casus belli.

The conflict over military flight activities has led to a practice of continuous tactical military provocations, with Turkish aircraft flying in the outer 4 mile zone of contentious airspace and Greek aircraft intercepting them. These encounters often lead to so-called "dog-fights", dangerous flight maneuvers that have repeatedly ended in casualties on both sides. In one instance in 1996, it has been alleged that a Turkish plane was accidentally shot down by a Greek one.[6]

P.S. Help! I keep accidentally typing "km" when I mean to type "nautical miles."

[Culise]

Don't forget, however, that the 12-nautical mile limit only applied after the 1982 UNCLOS convention.  Turkey never signed this in the first place, and naturally does not feel they should be obliged to accept the consequences of these conventions in the absence of such an accession, just as a British citizen in France isn't subject to American law.  Arguably, this would bear greater weight if Turkey hadn't eagerly accepted the 12-nautical mile limit everywhere outside the Aegean, but...

[misko27]

EDIT: Added a bit on the Turkey-Greece dispute in an aside with the abbr tag, since it's interesting but not directly relevant.  Basically, though, if the two weren't allies in NATO, I wouldn't be surprised if we were talking about a brief Aegean Conflict in the 80s or very early 90s to go with the invasion of Cyprus in the 70s; that's how bad the situation felt there. 

The kebab/feta dispute is millenia old.

Everyone violates everyone else's airspace.  It's just what you do when you have an airforce.

It's about legality, really.

A state has a right to say "fuck off or I'll shoot you", and then shoot you if you don't fuck off. That's just common practice. They can choose not to exercise their right to tell you to fuck off, but it still exists regardless of whether they exercise it.

[Culise]

EDIT: Added a bit on the Turkey-Greece dispute in an aside with the abbr tag, since it's interesting but not directly relevant.  Basically, though, if the two weren't allies in NATO, I wouldn't be surprised if we were talking about a brief Aegean Conflict in the 80s or very early 90s to go with the invasion of Cyprus in the 70s; that's how bad the situation felt there. 

The kebab/feta dispute is millenia old.
So is the Anglo-French one.  Time alone isn't a good enough reason.  This one's pride and economics coming together in a mix of perverse incentives.

[misko27]

EDIT: Added a bit on the Turkey-Greece dispute in an aside with the abbr tag, since it's interesting but not directly relevant.  Basically, though, if the two weren't allies in NATO, I wouldn't be surprised if we were talking about a brief Aegean Conflict in the 80s or very early 90s to go with the invasion of Cyprus in the 70s; that's how bad the situation felt there. 

The kebab/feta dispute is millenia old.

So is the Anglo-French one.  Time alone isn't a good enough reason.  This one's pride and economics coming together in a mix of perverse incentives.

kebab-feta dispute is not only older then the anglo-french one, it's older then england and france! On a more serious note, there is a lot more anger between the nations, quite a lot of difference culturally, and at least one genocide. Time isn't the reason for the conflict. Time is reason for a lack of it. Time, for sure, is why the Anglo-french relationship has gotten better. The Greco-Turkish dispute would fade, but it keeps getting renewed in blood.

But anyway, unrelated. Russia has only symbolically retaliated against Turkey thus far. NATO seems keen to not get involved. Washington has basically backed Turkey's version of events.

[Shadowlord]

Wouldn't you? Putin has earned a reputation for lying constantly now. "We don't have any soldiers in Ukraine. That was a Ukrainian missile. Or maybe it was a UFO, who can say? Don't worry, we're going to go bomb ISIS now!"

[Strife26]

Yeah, I've now seen two digital flight maps from both countries that are basically calling the other a liar. And how is anyone supposed to affirm whether anyone's radar data was altered?

Personally, with all the Russian flybys in the last couple of years I'm more willing to believe a Russian plane was in Turkish airspace than not.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if Russia keeps buzzing people after this

[smjjames]

Yeah, I've now seen two digital flight maps from both countries that are basically calling the other a liar. And how is anyone supposed to affirm whether anyone's radar data was altered?

Personally, with all the Russian flybys in the last couple of years I'm more willing to believe a Russian plane was in Turkish airspace than not.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if Russia keeps buzzing people after this

Meh, it'll be business as usual, he knows that we aren't going to shoot down his planes (though I can imagine Trump ordering the air force to do that). What WILL be interesting though is if he keeps having his planes violate Turkish airspace or not.

[nenjin]

I dunno, if a Russian plane flew into American airspace and ignored 10 communications to turn back, I'm pretty sure we'd light him up too. So far they haven't actually crossed into American airspace that I can remember, just coming exceptionally close on excursions.

[Starver]

in b4 Turkey annexes the Crimea to protect the Turkish speaking minority there from freezing to death due to no electricity.

I'm surprised nobody has 'suggested' that they got shot down from Zaroshchenskoe.

(Well, somewhere, out there, I bet that's been said.  It's too good a parody for only me to have considered.)

[Yoink]

After shooting down a Russian plane, Turkey is going to be in hot water just in time for Thanksgiving.