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[martinuzz]

My newspaper now writes that the Turkmenic Brigade reports the two pilots to have been shot dead while parachuting down.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/20/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-russia-idUSKCN0T91MO20151120

I think this may explain why Turkey shot down the aircraft and why Turkmen never wanted to let Russian pilots survive

[Shadowlord]

Martinuzz: I read the same thing, and that claim came from the rebels who said they shot them.

I guess these rebels are ignorant of or don't care about the laws of war, which I'm pretty sure include "don't shoot ejecting pilots, but you can shoot paratroopers."

[martinuzz]

But yeah, WTF Turkey. Their minister of foreign affairs now defended the action in the media, and said Turkey was in it's right to shoot down the plane, just because of the territorial violation.

Idiots. You think the Netherlands, UK, Germany, Denmark or others even consider shooting down the frequent Russian fighters and bombers without active transponders violating NATO airspace? No. They give them a friendly escort to international airspace, create some minor diplomatical fuss and go on about their daily business.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

No. They give them a friendly escort to international airspace, create some minor diplomatical fuss and go on about their daily business.

And show how weak you are.

[smjjames]

While it's definetly a dick move, I don't think it'll lead to a larger war because Putin isn't that stupid. Though he'll certainly tell his people to give Turkey a wider berth when going to Syria.

[martinuzz]

And show how weak you are.

Not really, it's a cat and mouse game that has been ongoing since cold war, with maybe a short pause in the period from Gorbatsjov till Putin.

Russian fighter / bomber: "Look! Here I am! I'm flying in your airspace!"
NATO fighter escort "Look! Here we are too! Pretty nice response time eh? How's the wife?"

Lately NATO countries around the North Sea and Baltic have made it a thing to form those escorts out of planes from different nations, just to show off how very well coordinated NATO forces operate.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Can you provide a list of cold war accidents with Soviet aircrafts entering NATO airspace? I highly doubt that it ever happened. I know only about flying close to NATO airspace and USSR shooting down stuff entering its airspace (including passenger jets)

[Shadowlord]

When you have cops shooting people dead because they felt threatened (because, for instance, a person twitches uncontrollably after being tazed, and oh no, their hands are moving under them THEY MUST BE GOING FOR A GUN), I have to wonder why we aren't also shooting down every Russian plane that even looks like it might be coming within weapons range of anything of ours. We let their bombers buzz the USS Ronald Reagan, an aircraft carrier, even.

[martinuzz]

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/27-high-tension-photos-of-american-jets-intercepting-ru-1593384099

[Sheb]

But yeah, WTF Turkey. Their minister of foreign affairs now defended the action in the media, and said Turkey was in it's right to shoot down the plane, just because of the territorial violation.

Idiots. You think the Netherlands, UK, Germany, Denmark or others even consider shooting down the frequent Russian fighters and bombers without active transponders violating NATO airspace? No. They give them a friendly escort to international airspace, create some minor diplomatical fuss and go on about their daily business.

Not idiocy, this is a deliberate provocation. Probably a way to say "keep your bombs off my Turkmen".

[da_nang]

Either way, it was an airspace violation. Turkey's choice of skipping the unofficial dickwave protocol and going straight to business is an entirely different kettle of fish but AFAIK the downing of the jet wasn't illegal.

[miljan]

Yup, the russian chopper is hit how it looks if the video is valid by american TOW system

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6OUlE6kaog

[Shadowlord]

... They waited until it was landed to blow it up? Well, I guess that makes it considerably easier.

Also, I notice there were two choppers, and that shows them blowing up only one. (I stopped the video at the point where they started rewinding and playing it over and over, though)

[martinuzz]

Damn. Russia gonna be even more pissed off now. I fear Turkey will achieve the opposite of it's intended goal.

in before Russia carpet bombs every last Turkmen in Syria

EDIT btw that control box in the video, it has a German Wehrmacht swastika?