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[Ukrainian Ranger]

I wish those Russian child-murderers to become stars of internet in "orange jumpsuit" show

[martinuzz]

Turkish version so far: 2 Turkish F16s shot down the Russian plane, after giving over 10 warnings. They claim the Russian fighter breached Turkish airspace multiple times.

Russian version so far: The Russian fighter was shot down from the ground. It never once entered Turkish airspace.

Turkish television showed footage of a heavily injured, not moving pilot. It is said he's dead. The other pilot is being held by Turkmen forces. Note that Turkmen forces are enemies of Assad, and thus also enemies of Russia. Russia has bombed Turkmen troops. Turkish authorities already summoned the Russian diplomat about that last week, asking Russia to stop bombing Turkmens and Turkmen civilians, since they are allies in the fight against terrorists.

little historical fact: this is the first time since somewhere in the 1950s that a Russian plane was downed by NATO forces

[miljan]

I really hope this is a wake up call for russia, so its stop ignoring turkey, and moves more openly in supporting kurds in fight against turkey.

Turkey, saudi arabia and qatar really need to be stopped, and as they are main allies of west or in NATO i dont see things getting cooler any time soon.

But dont think there will be any open military conflict between russia and turkey.

[Sheb]

But the Kurds are also fighting against Assad.

I'm surprised Russia doesn't claim it was a technical incident.

[miljan]

But the Kurds are also fighting against Assad.

I'm surprised Russia doesn't claim it was a technical incident.

Kurds are not fighting against Assad, they are allies with them (in last two years now, or maybe one year, dont remember now).

[Sheb]

Are they? My understanding was that they stopped fighting mostly because ISIS got in the way.

[martinuzz]

Russian news site Pravda is now suggesting that the US might be behind it.

Said Gafoerov, Pravda's news reporter, says the incident must be seen as "Turkish reaction to the agreement that was recently reached in Vienna between the various parties fighting IS, about a transit government that needs to be formed in Syria". He claims that the Turks are pissed that this will probably mean that Assad will not be removed from office immediatly, and even be part of the transit government. He claims Turkey now "tries to use military means to put pressure on the international community"

He goes on to speculate that the US "sent planes to Turkey that are solely built for an anti-air role. That is weird, since IS does not have airplanes. Let's just hope that is a coincidence"

Also I believe Sheb is right. Kurds are no friends of Assad. He's just not their priority.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Russian news site Pravda is now suggesting that the US might be behind it.

It was a Ukrainian Su-25 that disguised itself as F-16, flew over the Black Sea and Turkey and shot down the Russian aircraft!

[scriver]

Allies by mutual enemy is a kind of ally though, just not a very trusted one. What would happen if/when assad-regime gets back in control contra kurdish dreams of self governance is another matter.

[miljan]

Are they? My understanding was that they stopped fighting mostly because ISIS got in the way.

There are some incidents here and there, , but generally they agreed on a support as assad intended to give kurds more autonomy, and will not veto their demands after the crisis is over. You have kurds and syrian government working together, with mixed officers and military in same towns and military outposts. The main reason why russia did not bomb any kurds position is one of them.

[martinuzz]

The real reason is probably that Putin just does not like Erdogan, because he is taller than him. Makes him look like a small man on photos.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/photoseries/articlephotos/4193807/99a58a50-ff1f-499d-bd84-d3acd59f9bf0

[Sheb]

You got a source for the regime-Kurdish collaboration? It's the first time I hear of this, so I'm interested.

And yeah, I wouldn't put it past the Turk to have done this deliberately to try to scuttle the nascent collaboration between the NATO-led coalition and Russia.

[miljan]

Will eddit if i find the old reports if there are any on english

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnd60U7HM38

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/09/25/kurds-warn-disaster-syria-assad-regime-falls/

http://ekurd.net/assad-regime-ready-to-accept-kurdish-autonomy-in-syrian-kurdistan-2015-04-20

[martinuzz]

Thanks will check those links.

[Starver]

I had expected it would have been a wing-clipping incident between perhaps a Russian aircraft and a US drone that ramped up the overall diplomatic crisis (aircraft buzzing drone or drone deliberately impeding aircraft, according to who was telling the tale), rather than the Turks, but something was eventually going to happen.