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[Il Palazzo]

I've got nothing constructive to add, just wanted to moan about using the revolutionary tricolore for the French flag in a pre-revolutionary period. *Moan*

[BrigadeGeneral]

Reelya - I am aware of that. That is one of options, actually. Besides then that, BIG game feature is one of thing it holds. Of course, there are rewards designed for players which will be usefull in single and multiplayer game (ranks, points, titles and more). In the end, the playerbase would show me, which way to chose and which is bestest (got 5 different sets prepared).

Il Palazzo - Yep, you are right, I just took flag I had from older version of game and reused it.

[Nick K]

Hi, on reading your post, I have to say - this is not a project I'd back.
A few key points:

- Who is this studio that you plan to hire to make it? What's their track record making games? You leave a lot of information very vague, but anonymity does not go well with requests for money. If you plan to ask for money then you will need to release things like your real-life identity and exactly who the developers you plan to hire are.
- What's your experience making software? If the answer is "none", then this would be an extremely high-risk project for backers. Lots of kickstarters fail or end up releasing disappointing games even when they involve people who have experience making games.
- $70k is quite low for any but the simplest game. Over here a decent programmer would get a base salary of at least £30k/year or about $45k in dollars. Most games take much more than one programmer-year and I assume this studio would plan to be making profit as well. Indie kickstarters are often cheap because the person making the kickstarter is the programmer, so they get their time, which is the main expense, for free. This isn't the case for you.
- The studio get all their payment in advance and presumably don't get a cut of the profits? So, what's their incentive to make an actual high-quality product rather than just shovelling out a crappy, poorly-designed, bug-ridden mess?
- What's the plan for post-release bug-fixing? Go back to the same studio and re-negotiate terms?
- Venture capital? Seriously? Statements like "Venture capital companies are interested" are hard to take seriously.
- Massive multiplayer for a complicated strategy game? Doesn't fill me with too much confidence.
- Singleplayer version... okay, but this seems to assume you have decent AI. AI is a problem for big game studios with full time expert staff working on it for years. All this for $70k? I can't help but feel that this studio is planning to take you for a ride.
- Your original post says you're revolutionize singleplayer strategy games, but then it turns out that this is focused on multiplayer? You'll need to set up and run servers? The more I read, the more I feel that this project is so absurdly over-ambitious that it's doomed to failure.
- You've spent 13 years on the boardgame. This does not fill me with confidence that you can release a computer game in a timely fashion.
- You aren't a programmer, so why spend 13 years making a boardgame prototype for a computer game? You can learn to program in a few years. You can learn to program well in less than ten.
- "definitely change the genre". Hmmm, this sort of grandiose claim also does not fill me with confidence
- "vast possibilities and unique type of game play ". You make a lot of statements like this, but I don't see any concrete examples of how your gameplay is so great and unique.
- "In the end, the playerbase would show me, which way to chose and which is bestest (got 5 different sets prepared).". First of all, you will not raise money with English like that. Either you need someone to sort it out, or you should be fundraising in your native language. Secondly, you now plan to make 5 versions (for $70k each?) and let the playerbase choose? You know that they won't have an idea which is "bestest" until they've actually played all of them.
- "What you would do, in order to obtain funding for unique project, without ability to create gameplay or demo version?" My answer: I wouldn't do it. Because attempts to raise funding from something without any content to show tend to look very much like scams.
- Even if you aren't a scammer, your posts make me think that this game is over-ambitious. Without experience making even simple computer games, attempting to produce a large and complex one will have a very high chance of failure.

Here's my advice, assuming this is on the level and not a scam:
Build and release a demo of your game before trying to raise money. The purpose of this demo is to showcase the core gameplay, not to provide an example of the finished product. If you can't produce a simple demo without funding, then I am not confident that you can produce a quality full game with it. Either do it yourself, or find someone who'll shove out an ultra-simple version for cheap. Use shortcuts like roguelike-style graphics or free open-source content to keep the cost down. Then put your demo online and see how it's received.

If for some reason (why??) this is genuinely impossible, then get some friends together and actually record yourselves playing the boardgame. Put it on youtube - there are lots of let's plays of boardgames there. That way people can see whether or not your game is actually special and amazing.

[BrigadeGeneral]

Wow, thakns Nick K for contribute to this thread!

@1: I am not starting CF campaing yet, thus I don't reveal any information about studio behind it.
@2: Yes, none tbh. I worked with few games, but not as a programmer.
@3: For my country 70k USD is like 300k in US. That may be difference. Wages, even programmist are very profitable job, is still much cheaper then in US. Also, there are some funds of my own I have already.
@4: I am not "that" deep into arrangement with studio, but major point of cooperation is they do a product according to a specifcation. Of course, I would love to work with some gaming studio, since developement proces is complete, but well, I haven't ask any foreign studio (maybe I should try, hmmm).
@5: Maybe I am idealist, but I would like to give players game BUG free. I know it's not possible. Major point of contract would be to keep game going after relase. It's all depends on what conditoins we would cooperate. Again, I am not starting CF yet, thats why there is room to polish things.
@6 About CV line: it sound silly, but it was like this, actulally.
@7 I should add: if finished as I wish... but well, major thing in this game definately would be great MP game. But I would like to have single player and AI. This is, when it comes to budged - full product may be harder and more expensive to make, but again, I am not starting CF campaign and nothing is set in stone.
@8 Yes, I am aware of that.
@9 Oh, right. But how I would know this project will wind up this much I will have a fully scaled, playable, good game? At the time I knew it, back in 2006, I was almost married, with 2 works on my head and no time to anything.
@10 Well, I believe it could give fresh light on this genre
@11 My english is bad. I know - don't remind me of that :p I will gladly accept any help in that field BEFORE I will ask for any money. And, because differences betwean versions are cheap to implement even at programming level (it was consulted with 3 programmers). Small changes can make huge difference. Besides, there is tool named POOL, where players can show they thoughts. And a dialogue, like forums. What we do now
@12 Perhaps I should make dedicated topic with all details. This one was not to talk about game, but rather to find tips to help me. Of course, all talk is good!
@13 I thought about it aswell. Thanks.
@14 game is not THAT complex. It has unique sets of solutions rather then complexity (that a programmer words - not mine!).


@Advice: it's what I am trying to do, to have some demo working to show aswell as good YT video.

Once again I thank you for your time and effort.

[imacds]

To start off, I would like to say cześć (hello). Nice to see more Polish peoples on the forum. 

From what you showed of the board and pieces, I would say the game is really cool looking. I do not want to give any speculative suggestions on the game, since details have not been released, but the parts look nice. I feel, talking about the future video game, we have forgotten the fact you have a fully made, large board-game version of your game completed.

The number one suggestion in my opinion, which I feel is so important I want to make it stand out from the other list, is to get some sort of showcase of this game up on the internet somewhere. Since you have a gorgeous fully functioning board game, don't wait for a computer demo. I would recommend putting up an edited video on YouTube of the game being played which illustrates some of the game-play you find so revolutionary about this game. Mount a camera so it looks down on the map and play the game in an interesting scenario a bit. Edit the video to speed things up, keep it zoomed in on and showing the "action", add some commentary (either speech or text depending on how good your English is) but keep it to a minimum. I assume you mainly speak Polish, since that is what language the board is made in, so I recommend trying to simply demonstrate how your game works (you said yourself that the rules are rather simple) rather than explaining everything in complicated detail. The board looks very well made; there is a niche market for expensive board games as well as these world strategy video games.

For the Future:

• I feel like your video game's potential would be diminished significantly with poor graphics. Although not the first priority, don't underestimate how many people "old, low res" graphics might turn away from an otherwise fun strategy game.
• I recommend possibly thinking about making your game playable on mobile devices (far future). One will not be able to run this on their device alone, but with a server (many app games use servers nowadays), even this scope of a game is doable. The several hour turns would be most practical if one could access the game away from home. Of course, the base game on computer comes first.

I'm personally excited to see where this goes. It would be nice if your project had a more personal space for discourse (like even YouTube comments) rather than hijacking a DF blog.

[BrigadeGeneral]

Thanks, imacds!

I have idea of video for board game, in order to show some features. Also, my site has a little icon on top for english language and most news/features are wrriten in English aswell (just need to klick on link in news). When it comes to the graphics, I am still working on it, but it's not that I will be able to do them all . Once again, thanks!

[Insanegame27]

There are a few things I noticed.


1: WHOLLY SHIT THIS GAME LOOKS AMAZING


2: You need someone to spellcheck. Not trying to be mean or anything but with the spoilered post before... Allied is spelled 'Allied' not 'Alied'

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So yeah, I would be down with correcting any and all spelling and grammar errors in your game if you want, and I would do it for free (or some kind of moderator privilege for online games or whatnot or at the very least a spot in the credits)


This game is very nice looking. One thing I would change is the hella-large watermark covering most of the screen.

EDIT: You also said you're not a programmer. I believe I could help a little bit with that too. I know adequate Actionscript to make some niceish games (I have one stalled project I have where I have been offered money for what I have of the game so far, if that's worth anything) with flash and I also know some Javascript and Python. At the moment I am most fluent in Actionscript (AKA flash), followed by five years of Python experience and then Javascript

[BrigadeGeneral]

Thanks, Insanegame27 for your input.

ad 1: well, I like what you said, but it could be better. I am trying hard, but I still lack of some skills and experience.
ad 2: Yup, that was omission. I use e-dictionary before I use English language, and sometimes such bugs can still appear. Shame on me.

As for now, there are going two major things with this project. Firstly, I was on board game exhibition (fantasy convent) and I managed to show my board game to larger audience - I was really shocked how good they received it - for whole event we spend every single minute on playing with other people and, actually, there was brief moment they were waiting in line to play it. For a creator, there can not be better compliment. I am very pleased and even more motivated to push my work harder in order to get things done. As a result, I started to create professional board game: with new graphics, pawns, map, and other details. I think, if people want to play it, they need to get best, not some home made board game, but truly nice looking one. This stage should be completed within month or bit later.

Secondly, I am in talks with 2 major investors (1 private, 1 company) I can't throw any details yet, but once things will be more clear, I will announce it through FB and our webpage. I hope this will be major breakthrough to this project.

Any help is ALWAYS Welcome, and it will be appreciated, Insanegame27 - as for now, all things (except game program for battles) I made myself, and its been now straight 3 years, 5-10 hours a day I am working on this version of game - I am not exhausted, hell no, but I would like get a little help in fields I will not be able to enhance my skills. Write me a PM, please, and we can talk about your contribution to the game and what I can offer to you.


Regards,
Jaroslaw

[Bohandas]

Kickstarter

[Reelya]

No, i think you're much better off having a working prototype / trailer video before you even think about hitting kickstarter. And, no, a boardgame is not a sufficient demo of a video game concept. It's a sufficient demo of a boardgame you want to publish.

When you kickstarter a product that's still in early development (e.g. before a PC adaptation even exists) you end up with a lot of skeptics, critics and possibly accusations of being an outright scam. Even if your survive that and get early investors, you then have a lot of early-days investors who will project their own imagination onto what the game will become, rather than having realistic expectations based on demos and trailers. Those investors will be making demands, and probably getting pissed off when your game isn't delivered in a time frame to their liking, or the game doesn't end up looking like what they imagined. Generally, you want to save Kickstarter or Steam Greenlight for the final 6 months of polish or some such when you already have your working game mechanics on PC and you just need to polish the art assets etc.

There's also an issue with hype fatique. Many people who ok a Kickstarter or Greenlight project barely remember signing up to it if the project takes a long time to deliver. You end up with a problem where people gradually lose interest. Whereas, if there is a short window from announcement to delivery, everyone is hyped at the same time, then you get decent sales in a short time period, pushing your game up the charts, which generates additional media coverage and sales. If it's 2-3 years from announcement to delivery for an indie game then basically you're going to see a steady trickle of sales instead of an avalanche, and no spike in the charts which would get your more exposure. Basically, you want everyone talking about your game at the same time, to sustain interest. And you want the maximum amount of that talk to generate sales: i.e. you want the hype to happen when you have something to sell. And that means not boring people with a long drawn out "coming soon" thing.

Things like Star Citizen show some possible pitfalls of too much early exposure. While the money has been great, they've received unfair criticism of "taking too long" and "spending too much money" ($96 million so far). GTA V took 5 years in development and spent $265 million, and they worked on it for three years before even announcing that they were developing it. The only difference is that with Star Citizen people are seeing the entire development process for a $100 million dollar budget AAA game from inception to delivery, when usually games are pretty much locked down with gorgeous demos before they even tell you they exist.

Generally, I think it's a neat looking game, but you have to work on market differentiation. People have Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis, the Total War series of games, Mount and Blade, etc etc. You're going to have to convince people that your game is fresh enough that they should spend time playing that rather than the existing highly polished altenatives that already have a substantial player base. A cheaply made or amateurish PC adaptation of your game to PC probably isn't going to garner much widespread interest, just being realistic here.

[BrigadeGeneral]

O.o Reelya - thats a lot of input.

On most things, I am aware you wrote here. I am a player myself - and I saw products being in developement for far too long (I am Anarchy Online player - we know what "soon" means, hehe). There is no way I will even think of kickstarter at this moment, where only board game is ready 100% and I have only concept graphics of PC game to show. Thats why, firstly, I think working battle demo, with 6-10 players at one time would be best to show. And board game should be aviable in 2-3 months for anyone, who wants to see tactical battle.

[BrigadeGeneral]

Few photos from board version of tactical battle:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[My Name is Immaterial]

It looks fancy.

[Purple Gorilla]

As you want to found an own corporation, with you as the boss, it is important to handle the burocracy :

* Check, if you need some formal education for making a game. For every Job there is a formal education, and without it you get into trouble with guilds and consumerists. In the worst case, you can't do it at all, and otherwise, you must have to pay somebody with formal education to check your work, and confirm, that it reaches all standarts (and there are many standarts :-)). I am not sure, if there are any proper jobs related to making a game, but there are definitly some consumerist laws, that demand some things like recycling paper or non "toxic" hippie-paint to be used, or consumerist manuals telling consumers not to swallow plastic figurines and you may need proper craftsmen to verify that all.
* Games, whether video or board are toys, and toys must be censored. You might think now, there is nothing hot with your game, but the problems is not the censorship itself, the problem is the cost for the censorship. To be able to sell the game to children, you have to pay several thousand euros, to have it censored, and if it is not censored, vendors must verify the age of everybody, who tries buying, that is too much efford for most. Any non-censored media is treated like films like "the 120 days of Sodom" or "Cannibal holocaust", no matter how harmless it is.
* Interlectual property is a harsh bitch, especially if TTIP comes. If your small business does publish anything, expect to get sued by some mega-corporation or rogue lawyer for copyright infridgement. It doesn't matter, if you commited it or not (probably not), but the problem is, that they have more money for a court case, and you might have to surrender, because you cannot pay the ongoing lawsuit anymore even if the law is on your side. In such situations, the police might help you, but that doesn't work always.

In general, you are legally on thin ice, if you found a business or publish anything as a layman. The glory days there iron-hard assembler programmers made videogames as lone wolves are over, and the whole business is now in the hands of mega-corporations doing alienated work.

[Graknorke]

To be able to sell the game to children, you have to pay several thousand euros, to have it censored, and if it is not censored, vendors must verify the age of everybody, who tries buying, that is too much efford for most. Any non-censored media is treated like films like "the 120 days of Sodom" or "Cannibal holocaust", no matter how harmless it is.

Are you sure of that one? Pretty sure that shops can sell unrated things if they like, regardless of who to. It's just that most don't because they'd have the Concerned Parents Brigade on them faster than you could say "it's just a prank".