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[TolyK]

Low on time today, so quick post.

Being "most active" is not a gambit. Appearing to be active while not generating actual new information is scummy, though.

Megas, Tolyk, Tomasque, 4mask. Who is your top scum-read, and why? Who is your top town read, and why?

ATH is scum. Or he's very annoying to town and ugh can we lynch him already?  (I think he's scum. Second part was joke.)
Megas seems most townie, mainly because I have yet to see anything off in his posts even though he's fairly active.

[hector13]

Chainsaw defence? The bit where he voted for me? Erm, I did reply to that: he basically told me he thought my argument made no sense.

I tried to put it in clearer terms.

And again, the WIFOM "so town he must be scum" factors in my thinking a bit - it means that some scumtells/towntells like posting a lot/not posting are less important when the scum may actually have a plan.

Friends over, probs won't be able to post more, especially not get any good reads, till tommorrow.

Chainsaw defense: attacking someone who is attacking someone else, in an effort to defend that someone else. It's generally regarded as a scummy action, because town players don't know who the other town players are.

The fact I'm also voting TDS while he's doing that is also noteworthy, at least to me. What does TDS have to say on this?

I'd also like to remind you, NJW, there are still two scum players out there. Who are you going after next to find the other scum player?

[hector13]

And another one, for missing Tolyk's post

Why do you think ATH is scum?

[NJW2000]

Spoiler: quoted text/questions (click to show/hide)

Chainsaw defence? The bit where he voted for me? Erm, I did reply to that: he basically told me he thought my argument made no sense.

I tried to put it in clearer terms.

And again, the WIFOM "so town he must be scum" factors in my thinking a bit - it means that some scumtells/towntells like posting a lot/not posting are less important when the scum may actually have a plan.

Friends over, probs won't be able to post more, especially not get any good reads, till tommorrow.

Chainsaw defense: attacking someone who is attacking someone else, in an effort to defend that someone else. It's generally regarded as a scummy action, because town players don't know who the other town players are.

The fact I'm also voting TDS while he's doing that is also noteworthy, at least to me. What does TDS have to say on this?

I'd also like to remind you, NJW, there are still two scum players out there. Who are you going after next to find the other scum player?

Ok, late night post but:
Hector


RE: chainsaw defence, now I know what it is: I thought early-ish d2 it might be a pressure vote, a good tactic for someone in the middle of an attack, to see if they scummishly ramp up the agression themselves. It's possible that he's your scumpartner, but he only asked me to explain, suggesting he couldn't understand my admittedly poor reasoning and thought I was scum because of it. But really, I don't think scum would be particularly likely to accuse someone's post of being nonsense just to help out their scumbuddy. WIFOM, I guess, it wouldn't bee too subtle - but I haven't played as much, so I'd like to know your opinion on this, you being more experienced.

Who am I going after next - well, it's kinda late so I don't have the time or mental acuity right now to go back and look for reads, but I'd like to fire off some questions at someone active, though that's not giving me any options - TDS, did my answer to your question satisfy you? And was it a pressure vote, or did you think I was scum and want me out of the game?

Meggas: What do you think of the chainsaw defence mentioned above - as I've said, I am not experienced with this, and while I find scum to give ok advice on simpler things (from my last mafia - the scum I attacked helped me see the flaw in an argument I made that woulda got me lynched) I'd like your opinion.

ATH The last post on you voting for me was this:

ATH: So that was the collected thoughts.... ooookay.

Fair enough, I do need to scumhunt more, but I've been having trouble locking onto people. My other game I just got a good hunch and tunneled, this one... not so.

Rarely talk... yeah, I'm not the most active. But that's dodgy logic, as we've had two people who've barely posted.

And as for "diverting attention": please explain this. Town won't seek attention. I reply to questions straight, don't I?

TBH, I find Meggas' reads on me more interesting. You've also accused someone of being suspicious for being the most active poster.

about hector13 I'm strongly suspicious becuase he is in my eyes the most active player.
So I'm quite frankly worried if he's scum he could lead the town to their doom.
 so i don't necessarily believe he is scum but he is soneone i need to examine their future posts more carefully.
You not posting much and anyone not posting much is bad for town becuase it makes it harder to get a read on you and tell if your scum i feel you haven't contributed much and would like to see you post more  so i can properly analyze you.

You're still voting for me, which is a tiny bit worrying for most town, as it's a vote which could get me killed. Why is it worrying for everyone? Because I questioned your "NJW is lurking" logic, as - compared to other players - I wasn't, and your "diverting attention" point, which I frankly did not get, unless you mean my worries about the mess you made blocking reads on other people, and YOU HAVE NOT REPLIED TO EITHER OF THESE QUESTIONS OR REMOVED YOUR VOTE.

It is quite important that you do one of these two, at the very least. Otherwise - well, I'm not too worried as I think TDS made a pressure vote, but I do technically have the most votes on me right now. Soooo... more justifications? I did ask for them then not get any.

Antone who feels like giving their two cents: we need ATH to give his justifications for this, right? I think Hector has some stuff unanswered too - can someone just ask ATH to do this, because if he doesn't again, it will be annoying.

Goodnight all, probably.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

Spoiler: quoted text/questions (click to show/hide)

Chainsaw defence? The bit where he voted for me? Erm, I did reply to that: he basically told me he thought my argument made no sense.

I tried to put it in clearer terms.

And again, the WIFOM "so town he must be scum" factors in my thinking a bit - it means that some scumtells/towntells like posting a lot/not posting are less important when the scum may actually have a plan.

Friends over, probs won't be able to post more, especially not get any good reads, till tommorrow.

Chainsaw defense: attacking someone who is attacking someone else, in an effort to defend that someone else. It's generally regarded as a scummy action, because town players don't know who the other town players are.

The fact I'm also voting TDS while he's doing that is also noteworthy, at least to me. What does TDS have to say on this?

I'd also like to remind you, NJW, there are still two scum players out there. Who are you going after next to find the other scum player?

Ok, late night post but:
Hector


RE: chainsaw defence, now I know what it is: I thought early-ish d2 it might be a pressure vote, a good tactic for someone in the middle of an attack, to see if they scummishly ramp up the agression themselves. It's possible that he's your scumpartner, but he only asked me to explain, suggesting he couldn't understand my admittedly poor reasoning and thought I was scum because of it. But really, I don't think scum would be particularly likely to accuse someone's post of being nonsense just to help out their scumbuddy. WIFOM, I guess, it wouldn't bee too subtle - but I haven't played as much, so I'd like to know your opinion on this, you being more experienced.

Who am I going after next - well, it's kinda late so I don't have the time or mental acuity right now to go back and look for reads, but I'd like to fire off some questions at someone active, though that's not giving me any options - TDS, did my answer to your question satisfy you? And was it a pressure vote, or did you think I was scum and want me out of the game?

Meggas: What do you think of the chainsaw defence mentioned above - as I've said, I am not experienced with this, and while I find scum to give ok advice on simpler things (from my last mafia - the scum I attacked helped me see the flaw in an argument I made that woulda got me lynched) I'd like your opinion.

ATH The last post on you voting for me was this:

ATH: So that was the collected thoughts.... ooookay.

Fair enough, I do need to scumhunt more, but I've been having trouble locking onto people. My other game I just got a good hunch and tunneled, this one... not so.

Rarely talk... yeah, I'm not the most active. But that's dodgy logic, as we've had two people who've barely posted.

And as for "diverting attention": please explain this. Town won't seek attention. I reply to questions straight, don't I?

TBH, I find Meggas' reads on me more interesting. You've also accused someone of being suspicious for being the most active poster.

about hector13 I'm strongly suspicious becuase he is in my eyes the most active player.
So I'm quite frankly worried if he's scum he could lead the town to their doom.
 so i don't necessarily believe he is scum but he is soneone i need to examine their future posts more carefully.
You not posting much and anyone not posting much is bad for town becuase it makes it harder to get a read on you and tell if your scum i feel you haven't contributed much and would like to see you post more  so i can properly analyze you.

You're still voting for me, which is a tiny bit worrying for most town, as it's a vote which could get me killed. Why is it worrying for everyone? Because I questioned your "NJW is lurking" logic, as - compared to other players - I wasn't, and your "diverting attention" point, which I frankly did not get, unless you mean my worries about the mess you made blocking reads on other people, and YOU HAVE NOT REPLIED TO EITHER OF THESE QUESTIONS OR REMOVED YOUR VOTE.

It is quite important that you do one of these two, at the very least. Otherwise - well, I'm not too worried as I think TDS made a pressure vote, but I do technically have the most votes on me right now. Soooo... more justifications? I did ask for them then not get any.

Antone who feels like giving their two cents: we need ATH to give his justifications for this, right? I think Hector has some stuff unanswered too - can someone just ask ATH to do this, because if he doesn't again, it will be annoying.

Goodnight all, probably.

Yay! People are scumhunting.

ATH: jumps about a lot, doesn't always back up his points very well, changes direction very fast, but can't tell if this is just his playstyle.

TolyK: Mentioned a WIFOM as a slight scumtell, but went back on it when questioned. Also, wtf with jailclaiming? I prefer ATH's method to you and roo, at least we know what they're saying.

But now that I've looked through and back, thanks to your good reminder to do so:

Hector13: in the last day/5 pages, he's only attacked ATH really, and one of the inactives, which is easily activity points for a mafioso.
1. In fact, the last time Hector attacked someone else really was on page 15... asking roo about why he though Hector was/wasn't scum. Intriguing.

Also stuff like this, at the top of page 14
2. "Everyone, opinions on the cop-claiming saga. We have two people claiming a role that we know can have a maximum of one in the game, so... at least one of them is lying."

Seriously? Do you think we should scumhunt too, or would that be a bit OTT? /s, completely useless bit, saying, "hey guys, let's post on what's happening".

3. Same post: he asks TolyK for questions. Do mafia like being asked questions? Active style ones do!

4.Same post: He asks TheDarkStar, who has barely spoken, for his voting reason: good, but unlikely to get a reply. And I don't see him looking for it. As in, not chasing up the reply, at least not soon after.

Formatting things, egads. Jumbled thoughts much?

Byraway, all the things you referenced there are from the same post (this post, seeing as you didn't provide it) so... why were you trying to direct people to a post on page 15 when it all happened page 14?

Also, quick point, I wasn't attacking ATH, I was trying to discover the veracity of his claim, and he was not at all helpful in that respect, so I had to keep pressing him on it.

1. Roo voted for me, I posted saying he was a liar, then he said I wasn't scum and unvoted later. That struck me as odd so I wanted him to tell me about that. Why does that intrigue you?

2. So I shouldn't be encouraging the inactives to post then? I'll keep that in mind. I think that's the third time that you've suggested that people shouldn't be commenting on the cop-claim stuff. Why is that?

3. The only thing that had happened at that point in D1 was the cop-claim and the softclaim from Roo. I was trying to get people involved in the game. Town also like being asked questions, so perhaps you should consider that.

4. I don't really see what I'm s'posed to be chasing up. TDS responded toward the end of that day around 18 hours or so after I asked the question. I can't force people to answer questions, and as you say TDS wasn't around much then. I wasn't exactly just resting on my laurels and waiting for him to reply was I? I posted three times with questions for ATH trying to figure out why he decided to claim cop on D1, specifically because I was very uncertain over whether it was genuine or fakeclaiming.

Also:

How were you expecting us to have guaranteed trust in you, when you have no way of proving your role..?

It's not the most brilliant question, is it? Mafia asking obvious questions - if they want to appear active without getting embroiled in anything, there you go.

I note that you fail to bring up the questions I asked on the next page to ATH, one about the games he said he read, then a question about his thought process in claiming, which I then poke holes in halfway down page 16/post 232.

So I'm going to accuse you at this point of being scum, cherry-picking quotes to suit the case you're inventing.

Also: Around pages 11-12: huge argument with roo, who turned out to be town. And:

I didn't know Roo was town at that point though, did I? He was softclaiming something, not scumhunting and not answering questions. Does that sound like town play to you? If so, how?

PPE:

Looking back for an omgus on roo (this is why we need to be clear ) I realise that people may still want the hints ATH dropped to be shown. Why and to what extent is this a priotiry for you, hector13

Anyway, I wanted the hints from ATH yesterday. It's not important anymore though, 'cause if he's scum he's had too much time to figure out how to explain them away.

You're dropping more lines of questioning than a drunken kangaroo trying to catch strands of nylon in it's teeth, as far as I can see.

One instance does not a pattern make. If you want to tack this on to me, find more examples, preferably better ones.

I first asked ATH to provide quotes here, followed up here (which was 5 posts, half an hour later) resulting in ATH saying he couldn't quote, and then me trying to talk him through it. Followed up again here. I dropped the line of questioning in the bit you quoted, 21 hours and 80 posts after I first asked for the quotes. If ATH was scum, that was more than enough time for them to hash out a way to excuse any of the "hints" he dropped between the two mafiosos and the scum IC, so it would be a pointless endeavour.

Given that you said I've dropped other lines of enquiry, do point them out dearie.

Oh, and you had a shamelessly calm response to this. Which doesn't mean you're scum, just weak and lacking in virility. For how could any true man or woman stand to be insulted in such a way?

Fish.

Oh, and we had a fairly contentful conversation around page 11, ending with you FoSing me... and not following it up at all? And your exchange with roo on page 8 didn't contain much but you going, "that's a weird thing to say" repeatedly. And looking back from that, you sure do enjoy those one-line semi-relevant or obvious scumhunting question posts, before page 8 or so, don't you?

Am I s'posed to just gloss over the fact that Roo said that he was quite happy to wait until D2 with 90 hours left in D1? That doesn't strike you as a little bit odd?

The FoS on you was mostly just to see how you reacted. My vote was going to be on ATH or Roo for the end of D1, and I was trying to figure out which one it should be. Roo didn't answer any questions directed at him from when he voted then unvoted me, and I couldn't see that being from a town perspective, so that's why I left my vote there. I was considering moving my vote to Megggas to tie the vote up, but that would have resulted in a no-lynch, which would've been pointless. Had I known the scum's NK was going to fail, I would have liked to do that, though...

Really, Hector, you've been active, but have either gone for easy meat like the uber-dodgy roo and ATH, or just asked questions of inactive people occassionally, not followed stuff up, or simply discussed the game of mafia in a detached, academic way. I don't see you doing much for town except asking the sort of question someone was going to ask, low-level uncomitted (except for easy targets) scumhunting. So actually, I think you're the most suspicious person right now.

How am I s'posed to follow up questions when people don't answer them? As I already said, I can't force people to answer my questions or be active. I can drop votes on people and see, that's what I did at the start of the day, but 4mask is nowhere to be seen, so I'll change my vote to someone who is inactive and I don't have a read on, get them to post something. Hopefully.

What am I not doing for town that you can't apply to yourself, or Tolyk, or ATH? Or anyone else in the game? I'm asking questions, yes mostly of ATH but I'm trying to figure out his play because he's claimed Cop.

Further, I did suggest to everyone that an extension would be useful. Given that Roo turned up town, if I were scum why wouldn't I just leave things as they were and risk more information being brought into play before the end of the day, potentially ruining that mislynch?

Unvote

3. TDS, because he's not posted much, and I'd quite like him to respond to the stuff I asked him earlier.

Unvote
I've been looking over your posts but I've found nothing conclusive and so for now my earlier conclusions will be receded becuase you were semi active and you did provide some useful content I've been using quite a few hours to analyze these posts and for now I'm still gonna be suspicious but i can't say your scum.

[NJW2000]

Erm, howsabout the "diverting attention" thing?

[AbstractTraitorHero]

EBWODP
Get rid of second quote paragraph made a mistake.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

Erm, howsabout the "diverting attention" thing?

diverting attention it's something your guilty of i feel but it is not enough at all to say your scum

[fillipk]

Please don't edit posts, next time I see it I will kick you out/modkill you.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

Please don't edit posts, next time I see it I will kick you out/modkill you.

sorry been a really off day won't do it again.

[NJW2000]

Erm, howsabout the "diverting attention" thing?

diverting attention it's something your guilty of i feel but it is not enough at all to say your scum

Yes, but say where.

[hector13]

RE: chainsaw defence, now I know what it is: I thought early-ish d2 it might be a pressure vote, a good tactic for someone in the middle of an attack, to see if they scummishly ramp up the agression themselves. It's possible that he's your scumpartner, but he only asked me to explain, suggesting he couldn't understand my admittedly poor reasoning and thought I was scum because of it. But really, I don't think scum would be particularly likely to accuse someone's post of being nonsense just to help out their scumbuddy. WIFOM, I guess, it wouldn't bee too subtle - but I haven't played as much, so I'd like to know your opinion on this, you being more experienced.

I'm not that experienced. I know how to play the game, abbreviations and such, but I've played maybe 10 times at the most. I think this is the first game I've not been all that nervous playing, particularly when people vote me. Though perhaps the poor reasoning behind your vote helps that

I honestly don't know about TDS chainsawing though. It could be that he's trying to buddy me by defending me so I don't vote for him anymore, but I can't be sure about that. It's not a guaranteed scumtell, but TDS hasn't said anything about thinking I'm town and I'm voting for him so, I'm inclined to see it in a scummy way.

I'm intrigued that you say you're not bothered by you having the most votes on you, yet you

Spoiler: regarding your next scumhunt (click to show/hide)

Who am I going after next - well, it's kinda late so I don't have the time or mental acuity right now to go back and look for reads, but I'd like to fire off some questions at someone active, though that's not giving me any options - TDS, did my answer to your question satisfy you? And was it a pressure vote, or did you think I was scum and want me out of the game?

Perhaps you can indulge us with your next target tomorrow then.

Spoiler: on you worrying about getting lynched (click to show/hide)

You're still voting for me, which is a tiny bit worrying for most town, as it's a vote which could get me killed. Why is it worrying for everyone? Because I questioned your "NJW is lurking" logic, as - compared to other players - I wasn't, and your "diverting attention" point, which I frankly did not get, unless you mean my worries about the mess you made blocking reads on other people, and YOU HAVE NOT REPLIED TO EITHER OF THESE QUESTIONS OR REMOVED YOUR VOTE.

Antone who feels like giving their two cents: we need ATH to give his justifications for this, right? I think Hector has some stuff unanswered too - can someone just ask ATH to do this, because if he doesn't again, it will be annoying.

For someone who isn't worried about getting voted, you sure seem to be worried about getting voted. Asking ATH yourself, and then trying to get other people to do it for you.

ATH would need to give justification for his vote, just like anyone else, but since he's taken it off that's something else to look at.

Everyone else:  Who do you think is the most scummy person right now?

Hector13 or NJW2000

So ATH, now that you're not voting for NJW, are you going to vote for me since I'm your other top scum read? Give reasons for your answer.

...I think Hector has some stuff unanswered too...

What stuff?

Apologies for crap questions, tired

[AbstractTraitorHero]

Erm, howsabout the "diverting attention" thing?

diverting attention it's something your guilty of i feel but it is not enough at all to say your scum

Yes, but say where.

i don't have a quote it's just the feeling i get from your quotes almost universally.
In all or most of them i feel you have a tendency to try and make people focus on other's beside yourself.

[NJW2000]

No idea to last question. Too late, I'm afraid.

RE: worries: yeah, being in a position to make a player get lynched and staying there without justifying it makes you look pretty scummy. I was trying to get ATH to post, as he missed some of my questions earlier.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

RE: chainsaw defence, now I know what it is: I thought early-ish d2 it might be a pressure vote, a good tactic for someone in the middle of an attack, to see if they scummishly ramp up the agression themselves. It's possible that he's your scumpartner, but he only asked me to explain, suggesting he couldn't understand my admittedly poor reasoning and thought I was scum because of it. But really, I don't think scum would be particularly likely to accuse someone's post of being nonsense just to help out their scumbuddy. WIFOM, I guess, it wouldn't bee too subtle - but I haven't played as much, so I'd like to know your opinion on this, you being more experienced.

I'm not that experienced. I know how to play the game, abbreviations and such, but I've played maybe 10 times at the most. I think this is the first game I've not been all that nervous playing, particularly when people vote me. Though perhaps the poor reasoning behind your vote helps that

I honestly don't know about TDS chainsawing though. It could be that he's trying to buddy me by defending me so I don't vote for him anymore, but I can't be sure about that. It's not a guaranteed scumtell, but TDS hasn't said anything about thinking I'm town and I'm voting for him so, I'm inclined to see it in a scummy way.

I'm intrigued that you say you're not bothered by you having the most votes on you, yet you

Spoiler: regarding your next scumhunt (click to show/hide)

Who am I going after next - well, it's kinda late so I don't have the time or mental acuity right now to go back and look for reads, but I'd like to fire off some questions at someone active, though that's not giving me any options - TDS, did my answer to your question satisfy you? And was it a pressure vote, or did you think I was scum and want me out of the game?

Perhaps you can indulge us with your next target tomorrow then.

Spoiler: on you worrying about getting lynched (click to show/hide)

You're still voting for me, which is a tiny bit worrying for most town, as it's a vote which could get me killed. Why is it worrying for everyone? Because I questioned your "NJW is lurking" logic, as - compared to other players - I wasn't, and your "diverting attention" point, which I frankly did not get, unless you mean my worries about the mess you made blocking reads on other people, and YOU HAVE NOT REPLIED TO EITHER OF THESE QUESTIONS OR REMOVED YOUR VOTE.

Antone who feels like giving their two cents: we need ATH to give his justifications for this, right? I think Hector has some stuff unanswered too - can someone just ask ATH to do this, because if he doesn't again, it will be annoying.

For someone who isn't worried about getting voted, you sure seem to be worried about getting voted. Asking ATH yourself, and then trying to get other people to do it for you.

ATH would need to give justification for his vote, just like anyone else, but since he's taken it off that's something else to look at.

Everyone else:  Who do you think is the most scummy person right now?

Hector13 or NJW2000

So ATH, now that you're not voting for NJW, are you going to vote for me since I'm your other top scum read? Give reasons for your answer.

...I think Hector has some stuff unanswered too...

What stuff?

Apologies for crap questions, tired

no I'm not but i know who I'm investigating tonight becuase I'm more worried that your scum then actually believing your scum but I'm gonna ask you some questions but need a few minutes to think of some good ones.