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[hector13]

1. ATH claimed first. 2. If roo was a cop, he'd vote for ATH. 3. roo is acting defensive 4. roo implied a copclaim but now denies it.

I don't have good evidence for everything yet, but I think its possible that roo is scum that tried to fake a cop counterclaim on ATH but realized that that was a bad idea partway through, hence the lack of a non-implied claim.

Have you considered that ATH is scum claiming cop in an effort to lure out the real cop, which could be Roo? Roo, realising this part way through softclaiming, or claiming piecemeal (can't remember what that's called), backtracks on that because the Cop is quite useful to town?

If not, does this change anything?

If Roo realized that he was being baited, then why did he declare that ATH is just a troll?  Why is he not voting for ATH?

I've read the posts between my last one and this, but it's late so I'm not really wanting to make decisions based off of that just yet, or ask questions yet, so I'll just answer your question and go to bed.

Assuming Roo is cop I would think that Roo isn't voting ATH because that may confirm to the scum he is the cop. If he's not, then he just doesn't believe ATH is the cop and is playing poorly.

I'm considering asking for an extension tomorrow seeing as 4mask hasn't really been present. Nobody has a read on him and I can't be sure he's had much time to look over the game in any great detail yet. Thoughts?

[Tomasque]

I'm going to bed.  I'll be back a couple hours before Day 1 ends tomorrow.

Before I go, here's a couple of the points I was considering as evidence for my two theories.

Theory 1: Both ATH and Roo are Town.
Roo starts pressuring ATH after he has claimed and several of us have decided to just see if ATH survives the night.  It's at this point that Roo starts leaving hints that he is the actual cop.  He concludes his attack on ATH by unvoting him and claiming that ATH is nothing more than a troll and should be ignored.  This could be an attempt by Roo to draw attention away from ATH.

Theory 2: Both ATH and Roo are Scum
Roo's first vote is ATH.  After Roo begins pressuring ATH, ATH votes Roo back.  After they finish insulting/arguing with each other, Roo withdraws his vote.  Later on, ATH withdraws his vote.  This could have been them distancing themselves from each other.  However, the fact that ATH is voting for Roo now seems to counter this, unless Roo/ATH decided to just let Roo die and ATH is voting him for townie cred.

Meggas: How can we be sure that you are not scum, who would benefit if we blindly followed one of these two theories? If we lynch one, and it's your maf partner, the real cop woul be lynched as well. If we lynch the other and it is the real cop, the other would be in the clear (as a townie trying to draw the night-kill).

[NJW2000]

.... Guys quick one here no time...


Is Roo being sarcastic

He's doing a bit like wot ATH planned to do...


Is he mocking him/us?

Idk really, just a thought.

[NJW2000]

10 hours? You must all live West of me.

Not a great deal of time tonight either, but does anyone feel like the ATH thing is making it harder for them to get reads on other players?

 I'm worrying about it, but then I haven't played a game where a few players got a much larger amont of attention than the rest before.

[hector13]

Well it kind of has taken a lot of the focus from the other players. Neither ATH or Roo has done much in the way of scumhunting either... so I'm still kinda stuck between who to vote for, or if it's a good idea to vote for one of the two players claiming cop.

We know that at least one of them is lying, but which?

Anyway, I'd like an extension please.

[Megggas]

(Quick post from phone, ill say more about an hour from now)

I'm considering asking for an extension tomorrow seeing as 4mask hasn't really been present. Nobody has a read on him and I can't be sure he's had much time to look over the game in any great detail yet. Thoughts?

I think an extension is a good idea.  I'd like to more from Roo before the day ends.
Extend.

[Megggas]

EBWOP
*hear more

(stupid autocorrect)

[hector13]

Okay, so I'm suitably awake now and just had lunch, so I have the wherewithal to poke holes in arguments.

1. First i thought about the probability. Of me dying night 1

The probability of any one town player dying is 1 in 6, unless we lynch scum D1, in which case it is 1 in 7.

Earlier, specifically in this post, you said, if you were scum, you would be willing to accept a 28.57% chance (slightly better than 1 in 4) of the cop investigating you or your scum partner, and then choose to kill a more experienced player despite the cop being able to instantly tell whether or not someone is scum.

Why are you worrying about even worse odds of being NK'd if you keep the "fact" that you're cop to yourself?

2 i started thinking of a way to minimize the damage of that so i started trying to figure how to make scum slip so i could kill one scum in case they decide to kill me day 1
3 i looked back over the rules and confirmed just in case that there can be only 1 cop
4 I started thinking that if i can catch someone or make someone roleclaim i can trap them reveal I'm cop and lynch them getting rid of 1 scum at the cost of me being revealed and my death but a cop for a scum death seemed like a fair trade

How were you planning on proving you were the cop? The only way we know for sure is via your flip when you die.

You never really let your plan percolate... you first ask about the possibility of having more than one cop here, about an hour into the game.

Then, less than 2 hours later - for a grand total of 3 hours into the 96 hours of D1 - you claim cop here, using the wrong role name.

Given that you are aware of the importance of the cop role (you did take the effort to plan a gambit to draw out scum with it) why were you revealing that you're the cop when you had only dropped cryptic hints about it to that point and not all the players had posted yet?

And this might have worked becuase according to everyone roo has been trying to implie he's cop and i believe he's denying this becuase he made a bad move and is trying to save face to make him look town plus from what i read insults are used by scum to try and get people to back off so i believe roo is scum who tried to counter claim but then denied that so...
Roo
Feel free to discuss why your not scum roo I'm willing to listen to reason.

Could certainly argue this was a nice deflection onto the only other player we've been considering voting for...

*sigh*

Dark Star: I think you wrote (somewhere here) that the jailkeeper should jail ATH. Why did you want to protect the cop if it would roleblock him as well?

So, Tomasque, I just noticed this, reading through some of the posts.

Two things about it are bothersome for me: firstly, TDS mentioned jailing ATH two posts prior to you asking him about it, so I struggle to see how you forgot where it was...

secondly, and more importantly, where else might he have posted it, hm?

[roo]

I have tomasque as a weak town read atm

[Megggas]

Ok, I'm fully here now.  Last I checked the day ends in about 2 hours unless we extend it.

If Roo realized that he was being baited, then why did he declare that ATH is just a troll?  Why is he not voting for ATH?

I've read the posts between my last one and this, but it's late so I'm not really wanting to make decisions based off of that just yet, or ask questions yet, so I'll just answer your question and go to bed.

Assuming Roo is cop I would think that Roo isn't voting ATH because that may confirm to the scum he is the cop. If he's not, then he just doesn't believe ATH is the cop and is playing poorly.

Assuming Roo is the cop, do you think he views ATH as scum or a troll?  If ATH is lying scum and Roo recognizes this, then why wouldn't he be voting for ATH?

I'm going to bed.  I'll be back a couple hours before Day 1 ends tomorrow.

Before I go, here's a couple of the points I was considering as evidence for my two theories.

Theory 1: Both ATH and Roo are Town.
Roo starts pressuring ATH after he has claimed and several of us have decided to just see if ATH survives the night.  It's at this point that Roo starts leaving hints that he is the actual cop.  He concludes his attack on ATH by unvoting him and claiming that ATH is nothing more than a troll and should be ignored.  This could be an attempt by Roo to draw attention away from ATH.

Theory 2: Both ATH and Roo are Scum
Roo's first vote is ATH.  After Roo begins pressuring ATH, ATH votes Roo back.  After they finish insulting/arguing with each other, Roo withdraws his vote.  Later on, ATH withdraws his vote.  This could have been them distancing themselves from each other.  However, the fact that ATH is voting for Roo now seems to counter this, unless Roo/ATH decided to just let Roo die and ATH is voting him for townie cred.

Meggas: How can we be sure that you are not scum, who would benefit if we blindly followed one of these two theories? If we lynch one, and it's your maf partner, the real cop woul be lynched as well. If we lynch the other and it is the real cop, the other would be in the clear (as a townie trying to draw the night-kill).

1.  I'm not asking anyone to blindly follow my theories.  I proposed them as possible explanations for Roo's behavior.  Like I said before, feel free to poke holes in them.
2.  The real cop is in danger regardless of which of them gets lynched.  Either of them could be cop.  Even if the real cop isn't lynched today, then the scum will kill him tonight.  It would be stupid of them to leave the cop alive.
3.  If we lynch Roo and he is revealed as the Cop, then both my theories are completely invalidated.  If we lynch ATH and he is revealed as the Cop, then it is possible that my first theory was correct.  It is also possible that this is Roo's first time being scum and he has no clue what he's doing.  Roo's future actions can still condemn him.

[Megggas]

I have tomasque as a weak town read atm

Why?

[hector13]

Assuming Roo is the cop, do you think he views ATH as scum or a troll?  If ATH is lying scum and Roo recognizes this, then why wouldn't he be voting for ATH?

Well since he's not voting for him and he did outright state it, I think he thinks ATH is a troll.

There is also the possibility that Roo is jailor, seeing as how he just implied there is something to claim, not what that was. Which would mean that the two most suspicious players are also our power roles. Yay!

I think Roo is experienced enough to realise that actually saying what he was claiming is a bad idea, whether he's town or scum. If he's town he wants to keep the role secret so it's actually useful. If he's scum, he'll want to keep his options open if he needs to claim later.

Given that he's not really done anything during the game, I'm inclined toward the latter option.

[NJW2000]

EXTEND

[Megggas]

Assuming Roo is the cop, do you think he views ATH as scum or a troll?  If ATH is lying scum and Roo recognizes this, then why wouldn't he be voting for ATH?

Well since he's not voting for him and he did outright state it, I think he thinks ATH is a troll.

There is also the possibility that Roo is jailor, seeing as how he just implied there is something to claim, not what that was. Which would mean that the two most suspicious players are also our power roles. Yay!

I think Roo is experienced enough to realise that actually saying what he was claiming is a bad idea, whether he's town or scum. If he's town he wants to keep the role secret so it's actually useful. If he's scum, he'll want to keep his options open if he needs to claim later.

Given that he's not really done anything during the game, I'm inclined toward the latter option.

Hmm, that's a good point.  Roo could be the jailor, which is a possibility I didn't consider.  I'll have to think about that.

.... Guys quick one here no time...


Is Roo being sarcastic

He's doing a bit like wot ATH planned to do...


Is he mocking him/us?

Idk really, just a thought.

Eh, if this is just him being sarcastic, then he's not doing us any favors.

10 hours? You must all live West of me.

Not a great deal of time tonight either, but does anyone feel like the ATH thing is making it harder for them to get reads on other players?

 I'm worrying about it, but then I haven't played a game where a few players got a much larger amont of attention than the rest before.

Yeah, the ATH/Roo Cop controversy is taking up most of my attention, but I'm still trying to keep an eye on everyone else.

[TolyK]

Given I haven't had much time lately, and Pfp, I'd say that Roo still stands in my suspicion list, plus ATH should probably not get lynched today, and not policy-lynched tomorrow unless no more info comes out. If he's a cop, having him confirm a townie and then getting lynched to confirm the townie... not the best plan.