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[AbstractTraitorHero]

How were you expecting us to have guaranteed trust in you, when you have no way of proving your role..?

i was hoping to say hint at the results of my allignment investigation action on day 2 unless i found scum then i planned to just throw everything out in the open and lynch that scum

[hector13]

I also meant to ask ATH if anyone claimed cop in D1, or even tried a cop-claim gambit on D1, in any of the games he read?

[AbstractTraitorHero]

I also meant to ask ATH if anyone claimed cop in D1, or even tried a cop-claim gambit on D1, in any of the games he read?

not that i remember i remember other gambits but not copclaim day 1

[hector13]

I also meant to ask ATH if anyone claimed cop in D1, or even tried a cop-claim gambit on D1, in any of the games he read?

not that i remember i remember other gambits but not copclaim day 1

Can you talk me through your thought process when you decided that trying to bait the scum team into claiming cop would be a good idea, on D1?

[TheDarkStar]

It's 6 am ahhhhhh I'm going back to bed. I'll say it again don't blame me for your assumptions.

@tolyk  unvote I haven't since I explained in my most recent post why I don't think hector is scum...

@tds if you were following the game you would know that
1.) I am ignoring ath
2.) ath is a troll
3.) I Was voting ath

Tds you haven't been active. And from your two posts seem to only be interested in me. Your initial reason was something or other, doesn't really matter. Now you say your reason has changed. The wording is odd imo.

Instead of saying 'I am keeping my vote on roo'. You mirror the question and say:
"I still intend to vote for roo".

It might be nitpicky but I think it's weird. Your response of "intending" implies you've done due diligence and considered other options besides myself which is simply untrue; as far as your posts go because they tell a different story.

I have not claimed cop tds. You assuming that I have and operating on that assumption is not my fault. It is bad play to cc day 1. As far as me and ath go simoly look at our exchange early in the day. I voted for him then figured out he was a troll and moved from him that is all.

Why do you think ATH is a troll and what does that have to do with ignoring him?
What does your vote on ATH

I'm watching everyone, but you appear to be the scummiest person to me. Are you or are you not claiming cop and why are you implying it? Why would counterclaiming cop be bad on day 1?

TDS, why are you voting for Roo over ATH in the whole cop-claiming saga?

Everyone, opinions on the cop-claiming saga. We have two people claiming a role that we know can have a maximum of one in the game, so... at least one of them is lying.

1. ATH claimed first. 2. If roo was a cop, he'd vote for ATH. 3. roo is acting defensive 4. roo implied a copclaim but now denies it.

I don't have good evidence for everything yet, but I think its possible that roo is scum that tried to fake a cop counterclaim on ATH but realized that that was a bad idea partway through, hence the lack of a non-implied claim.

IC, what is the politics of telling someone they don't have to answer something?

(This is my IC voice. Everything I say in it is guaranteed to be true and unbiased.)

To answer your question: it depends. Answering a question for someone else or commenting on that question can be useful to make a point about the person asking the question. However, it can also be seen as "chainsawing" or "buddying" - defending someone else from accusations without having a good reason to think that they are town. So overall, it depends on what you are trying to achieve and on what you want to say.

[TheDarkStar]

(This is my IC voice. Everything I say in it is guaranteed to be true and unbiased by my role or win condition.)

EBWOP because there are things like playstyle and experience that might influence what I say.

[hector13]

1. ATH claimed first. 2. If roo was a cop, he'd vote for ATH. 3. roo is acting defensive 4. roo implied a copclaim but now denies it.

I don't have good evidence for everything yet, but I think its possible that roo is scum that tried to fake a cop counterclaim on ATH but realized that that was a bad idea partway through, hence the lack of a non-implied claim.

Have you considered that ATH is scum claiming cop in an effort to lure out the real cop, which could be Roo? Roo, realising this part way through softclaiming, or claiming piecemeal (can't remember what that's called), backtracks on that because the Cop is quite useful to town?

If not, does this change anything?

[AbstractTraitorHero]

I also meant to ask ATH if anyone claimed cop in D1, or even tried a cop-claim gambit on D1, in any of the games he read?

not that i remember i remember other gambits but not copclaim day 1

Can you talk me through your thought process when you decided that trying to bait the scum team into claiming cop would be a good idea, on D1?

okay
1. First i thought about the probability. Of me dying night 1
2 i started thinking of a way to minimize the damage of that so i started trying to figure how to make scum slip so i could kill one scum in case they decide to kill me day 1
3 i looked back over the rules and confirmed just in case that there can be only 1 cop
4 I started thinking that if i can catch someone or make someone roleclaim i can trap them reveal I'm cop and lynch them getting rid of 1 scum at the cost of me being revealed and my death but a cop for a scum death seemed like a fair trade
5 so in essence i wanted to off a scum day 1 on the off chance that they pick me to nightkill night 1

And this might have worked becuase according to everyone roo has been trying to implie he's cop and i believe he's denying this becuase he made a bad move and is trying to save face to make him look town plus from what i read insults are used by scum to try and get people to back off so i believe roo is scum who tried to counter claim but then denied that so...
Roo
Feel free to discuss why your not scum roo I'm willing to listen to reason.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

1. ATH claimed first. 2. If roo was a cop, he'd vote for ATH. 3. roo is acting defensive 4. roo implied a copclaim but now denies it.

I don't have good evidence for everything yet, but I think its possible that roo is scum that tried to fake a cop counterclaim on ATH but realized that that was a bad idea partway through, hence the lack of a non-implied claim.

Have you considered that ATH is scum claiming cop in an effort to lure out the real cop, which could be Roo? Roo, realising this part way through softclaiming, or claiming piecemeal (can't remember what that's called), backtracks on that because the Cop is quite useful to town?

If not, does this change anything?

completly valid reasoning i know its probably hard to trust me i can see why I've made some bad mistakes with my plan
So let's work together to see whether I'm a filthy scum or a silly cop and lets also question and determine whether Roo is foolish town or a heinous Villain.

[Megggas]

(Wow, 8 10 new replies while I typed and proofread this.  Ugh, I seriously need to take a typing class)

Ok, I'm here again....kind of.  I'll be around for the next 2 hours, but first I've got to eat dinner.  I just wanted to say this real quick.

AbstractTraitorHero:

(Insert Quote Pyramid here)

So...you really didn't think this plan through at all then?  The scum already know who the townies are and would specifically be looking for power roles.  Even if you were incredibly lucky and the scum didn't notice you, what did you expect to gain from the town discovering your role this early?  Did you expect every townie to figure out your role and then just keep their mouth shut and not mention their suspicions about you?

i thought it through but not enough at all i was thinking in terms of what i wanted to happen instead of thinking of all possibilities that could happen
And i thought i would gain a guaranteed trust and allow the townto have a better chance at finding scum by knowing one player is town

I expected people to be suspicious the plan for then was to completely deny it while leaving hints and confirmation that i was the town cop
In the end my plan failed becuase i did not think of all outcomes and poor execution

That underlined portion...almost exactly describes what Roo is doing, oddly enough.  Huh.
Anyway, AbstractTraitorHero, were you telling the truth back when you said you thought "Rolecop" and "Cop" meant the same thing?  Or was that Rolecop/Cop confusion actually part of your gambit?

Everyone, opinions on the cop-claiming saga. We have two people claiming a role that we know can have a maximum of one in the game, so... at least one of them is lying.

I skimmed over Roo's posts in Beginner's Mafia LIV.  For that game, it seems like Roo left no obvious hints of his role on Day 1 or 2 and then revealed himself on Day 3.  On Day 2, after having investigated 4maskwolf the previous night, he specified 4maskwolf as a definite townie read and gave lackluster reasons when asked about it.  Ultimately, it seemed like Roo was keeping his role hidden pretty well in that game, which makes his behavior here all the more concerning.  However, I've come up with some theories.

I suspect that AbstractTraitorHero and Roo are of the same alignment.  If ATH is town and Roo is scum, then it doesn't make any sense for Roo to draw attention to himself like this by trying to softclaim cop.  ATH would almost certainly inspect Roo and declare him as scum if ATH lives through the night.  Likewise, if ATH dies during the night, he'll be proven to be the cop and Roo a fraud.  Then Roo's softclaim will be revealed as some kind of weird ruse, which will just draw more suspicion from us.  It doesn't gain him or the scum anything.

On the other hand, if ATH is a reckless fakeclaiming scum and Roo is the true cop, then this would be a major slip up on Roo's part.  He would be playing right into the scum's hands.  Based on how Roo played as Cop last time, I don't think he would so strongly hint at his role like this during Day 1 unless he was gonna try to convince us to lynch ATH for being lying scum.  Yet, Roo dropped his vote from ATH, so he's not even doing that.   

Thus, I suspect one of two things is happening:

ATH is the actual Cop who foolishly revealed himself way too early and Roo is a townie who is softclaiming as part of a gambit to draw the scum's nightkill to himself.  If he succeeds, then ATH would at least be able to inspect one player.

or

ATH is a newby scum who immediately tried fakeclaiming cop as part of lame scum gambit, and Roo, his scumbuddy, is trying to make the best of the situation by softclaiming cop.  If either one dies as scum, then the other one can continue pretending to be the cop.  In the event that there is a real cop who is revealed, Roo can instead say that he never actually claimed cop and that it was all just our assumptions.

Feel free to poke holes in these two theories.  I may have overthought this.  I've been gathering evidence for both these theories, but if I missed something that completely invalidates them, be sure to tell me.

[Megggas]

TDS, why are you voting for Roo over ATH in the whole cop-claiming saga?

Everyone, opinions on the cop-claiming saga. We have two people claiming a role that we know can have a maximum of one in the game, so... at least one of them is lying.

1. ATH claimed first. 2. If roo was a cop, he'd vote for ATH. 3. roo is acting defensive 4. roo implied a copclaim but now denies it.

I don't have good evidence for everything yet, but I think its possible that roo is scum that tried to fake a cop counterclaim on ATH but realized that that was a bad idea partway through, hence the lack of a non-implied claim.

If you're right, then when did Roo realize that it was a bad idea?  He put some pressure on ATH early on, but then let off his vote and claimed ATH was just a troll.  Was this part of his plan to counterclaim?

[AbstractTraitorHero]

(Wow, 8 10 new replies while I typed and proofread this.  Ugh, I seriously need to take a typing class)

Ok, I'm here again....kind of.  I'll be around for the next 2 hours, but first I've got to eat dinner.  I just wanted to say this real quick.

AbstractTraitorHero:

(Insert Quote Pyramid here)

So...you really didn't think this plan through at all then?  The scum already know who the townies are and would specifically be looking for power roles.  Even if you were incredibly lucky and the scum didn't notice you, what did you expect to gain from the town discovering your role this early?  Did you expect every townie to figure out your role and then just keep their mouth shut and not mention their suspicions about you?

i thought it through but not enough at all i was thinking in terms of what i wanted to happen instead of thinking of all possibilities that could happen
And i thought i would gain a guaranteed trust and allow the townto have a better chance at finding scum by knowing one player is town

I expected people to be suspicious the plan for then was to completely deny it while leaving hints and confirmation that i was the town cop
In the end my plan failed becuase i did not think of all outcomes and poor execution

That underlined portion...almost exactly describes what Roo is doing, oddly enough.  Huh.
Anyway, AbstractTraitorHero, were you telling the truth back when you said you thought "Rolecop" and "Cop" meant the same thing?  Or was that Rolecop/Cop confusion actually part of your gambit?

Everyone, opinions on the cop-claiming saga. We have two people claiming a role that we know can have a maximum of one in the game, so... at least one of them is lying.

I skimmed over Roo's posts in Beginner's Mafia LIV.  For that game, it seems like Roo left no obvious hints of his role on Day 1 or 2 and then revealed himself on Day 3.  On Day 2, after having investigated 4maskwolf the previous night, he specified 4maskwolf as a definite townie read and gave lackluster reasons when asked about it.  Ultimately, it seemed like Roo was keeping his role hidden pretty well in that game, which makes his behavior here all the more concerning.  However, I've come up with some theories.

I suspect that AbstractTraitorHero and Roo are of the same alignment.  If ATH is town and Roo is scum, then it doesn't make any sense for Roo to draw attention to himself like this by trying to softclaim cop.  ATH would almost certainly inspect Roo and declare him as scum if ATH lives through the night.  Likewise, if ATH dies during the night, he'll be proven to be the cop and Roo a fraud.  Then Roo's softclaim will be revealed as some kind of weird ruse, which will just draw more suspicion from us.  It doesn't gain him or the scum anything.

On the other hand, if ATH is a reckless fakeclaiming scum and Roo is the true cop, then this would be a major slip up on Roo's part.  He would be playing right into the scum's hands.  Based on how Roo played as Cop last time, I don't think he would so strongly hint at his role like this during Day 1 unless he was gonna try to convince us to lynch ATH for being lying scum.  Yet, Roo dropped his vote from ATH, so he's not even doing that.   

Thus, I suspect one of two things is happening:

ATH is the actual Cop who foolishly revealed himself way too early and Roo is a townie who is softclaiming as part of a gambit to draw the scum's nightkill to himself.  If he succeeds, then ATH would at least be able to inspect one player.

or

ATH is a newby scum who immediately tried fakeclaiming cop as part of lame scum gambit, and Roo, his scumbuddy, is trying to make the best of the situation by softclaiming cop.  If either one dies as scum, then the other one can continue pretending to be the cop.  In the event that there is a real cop who is revealed, Roo can instead say that he never actually claimed cop and that it was all just our assumptions.

Feel free to poke holes in these two theories.  I may have overthought this.  I've been gathering evidence for both these theories, but if I missed something that completely invalidates them, be sure to tell me.

(took typing classes actually)
I was honestly telling the truth there i made a mistake becuase my glasses are broken and got the two names mixed up combine that with starting most of my posts while pretty tired i just made a mistake

First theory i like this one yes i was quite foolish and my plan was executed poorly and i never thought roo could actually be trying to save me if that is true thank you roo but yes the first theory is correct about me

Second theory if i was scum i don't think i woukd have tried roleclaiming i would slmost certainly be just ss active but i feel i would try and tunnelvision you guys pretty bad but i do believe roo is scum but your first theory makes me a little less sure of his guilt.

[Megggas]

1. ATH claimed first. 2. If roo was a cop, he'd vote for ATH. 3. roo is acting defensive 4. roo implied a copclaim but now denies it.

I don't have good evidence for everything yet, but I think its possible that roo is scum that tried to fake a cop counterclaim on ATH but realized that that was a bad idea partway through, hence the lack of a non-implied claim.

Have you considered that ATH is scum claiming cop in an effort to lure out the real cop, which could be Roo? Roo, realising this part way through softclaiming, or claiming piecemeal (can't remember what that's called), backtracks on that because the Cop is quite useful to town?

If not, does this change anything?

If Roo realized that he was being baited, then why did he declare that ATH is just a troll?  Why is he not voting for ATH?

[AbstractTraitorHero]

EBWODP
(Have to do homework for geometry 10th grade 1st period be back and ready to respond to new posts maybe in 30 or 40 minutes sir and madames)

[Megggas]

I'm going to bed.  I'll be back a couple hours before Day 1 ends tomorrow.

Before I go, here's a couple of the points I was considering as evidence for my two theories.

Theory 1: Both ATH and Roo are Town.
Roo starts pressuring ATH after he has claimed and several of us have decided to just see if ATH survives the night.  It's at this point that Roo starts leaving hints that he is the actual cop.  He concludes his attack on ATH by unvoting him and claiming that ATH is nothing more than a troll and should be ignored.  This could be an attempt by Roo to draw attention away from ATH.

Theory 2: Both ATH and Roo are Scum
Roo's first vote is ATH.  After Roo begins pressuring ATH, ATH votes Roo back.  After they finish insulting/arguing with each other, Roo withdraws his vote.  Later on, ATH withdraws his vote.  This could have been them distancing themselves from each other.  However, the fact that ATH is voting for Roo now seems to counter this, unless Roo/ATH decided to just let Roo die and ATH is voting him for townie cred.