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No

9 (37.5%)

Yes

15 (62.5%)

Total Members Voted: 23

[GoblinCookie]

Just saying that there's now been an actual investigation into it, no need to be so hostile.

I was never being hostile.   

I was just not aware of anybody, other than off the head conspiracy theorists believing there was anything interesting about the matter, aside from the question of how the plane ended up flying over a warzone in the first place.

[mainiac]

A lot of people have said the rebels didn't do it.  Quite the kerfuffle.  Almost rose to ruckus levels.

[GoblinCookie]

Well, I'm afraid to say it came across that way.

And I'm just saying it now seems to have been verified by a reliable source, instead of Russia's 'Nononononono, was totes Ukraine' thing.

I would not consider the warhawk BBC a reliable source on matters related to Ukraine.  The whole matter bores me however, there is no need to impute malicious motivations to those who shot the plane down, as the most probable explanation is that it was an accident.  Give that is so, it does not really matter whose missile it was because nobody is guilty of anything; this leaves me naturally suspicious of any source that is going around trying to 'prove' whose accident it was, whatever their evidential basis is. 

[SirQuiamus]

I'm just saying it now seems to have been verified by a reliable source...

Nothing is reliable source.

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov called the Dutch crash investigation "biased in nature" and said Russia was "ready to present its own information."

Putin's cronies will keep claiming that the Dutch investigators are lying out of their asses, but hopefully the report will shut up everyone who isn't a professional troll of the Kremlin.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Yes, we know the rebels shot down a civilian airliner by accident.  The significance of this is?

Emmmm. It is wrong. We know that Russian army personell shot down a civilian airliner.

Why they did it? It is interesting. The most likely causes that either their SAM that will easily shoot down F-22s in masse piece of Soviet Shit failed to differentiate between AN-26 and Boeng-777.
or cause that drunkard morons from Russian army made an idiotic mistake.

[mainiac]

I would not consider the warhawk BBC a reliable source on matters related to Ukraine.

Ohhhh you are soooo edgy and cool, telling those Shepple you dont believe the hawkish government lies.

[scrdest]

I would not consider the warhawk BBC a reliable source on matters related to Ukraine.

Ohhhh you are soooo edgy and cool, telling those Shepple you dont believe the hawkish government lies.

Shepple? Is that, like, a Snapple made from sheep?

[Baffler]

I would not consider the warhawk BBC a reliable source on matters related to Ukraine.

Ohhhh you are soooo edgy and cool, telling those Shepple you dont believe the hawkish government lies.

Shepple? Is that, like, a Snapple made from sheep?

Nono, he's trying not to say sheeple, to avoid summoning a relevant XKCD comic.

[mainiac]

Shepple? Is that, like, a Snapple made from sheep?

A product of Scotland.

[Helgoland]

Heh, I think it sounds more like an alcoholic beverage made from this thread's predecessor's OP. I could go for a Shepple right now...

[Grim Portent]

So it looks like 16 and 17 year olds may be allowed to vote in the UK referendum on EU membership.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-faces-another-eu-6628603?utm_content=buffercc5af&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Labour and the Lib Dems are apparently pushing for younger people to have a say while Cameron wants it to be restricted to 18+ like normal voting.

[Vilanat]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/15/big-decisions-unlikely-migration-summit-eu-leaders

It seems like the EU solution to the immigration crisis is to open up the EU to 75 millions turks.

[Bouchart]

Welcome to Eurabia.

[mainiac]

Because about 10% of the EU will be turkish?  Seems legit.

[Helgoland]

Honestly I think the Turkish - and possibly the Iranians, depending on modernization and political development - could fit in very well in the EU, given enough time. Before the usual people claw at my throat again: I'm talking 50 - 100 years. They're both countries with a strong and independent citizenry, both have embraced secular nationalism in the past, which is a defining characteristic of European-style development, etc etc. At the very least we should consider them as powers with interests fundamentally aligned with out own, and thus as potential partners in the necessary re-ordering of the middle east and, if it remains necessary in the future, the organized resistance - mostly political, cultural, economic - against Russia.

TL;DR: I think that politically we should at Turkey and Iran like we should look at Russia: As different, sure, but not essentially foreign - as potential partners we should talk eye-to-eye with and treat as equals*.


*And nothing less, but in the case of Russia as nothing more either.