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9 (37.5%)

Yes

15 (62.5%)

Total Members Voted: 23

[Helgoland]

Still better than when he try to borg into philosophers' asses in drunken English.

You know perfectly well that I was actually trying to read what was written on the back of her shirt - borging above her ass, not into it-, even though I admit I may not have taken the optimal approach. Plus she doesn't speak any English anyway, so... And she seemed fairly friendly yesterday, which kinda gives me hope that I have not left her with a lasting overly bad impression.

@Iran: Well, they probably shouldn't join the EU, but the EU is a regional project anyway - I don't see why we couldn't organize states in a similar manner one level higher.

[smjjames]

Still better than when he try to borg into philosophers' asses in drunken English.

You know perfectly well that I was actually trying to read what was written on the back of her shirt - borging above her ass, not into it-, even though I admit I may not have taken the optimal approach. Plus she doesn't speak any English anyway, so... And she seemed fairly friendly yesterday, which kinda gives me hope that I have not left her with a lasting overly bad impression.

Who are you talking about? Merkel?

[Helgoland]

No, a hot Belgian chick. I just went there to visit Sheb, and I admit I got distracted by the sexy a couple times... Luckily it turns out that we have different tastes in women.

[Sheb]

TBH, my ex used to look much better back when she was a blonde...

Plus, if you can make out with a girl by showing her Tag der Freiheit and Battleship Potemkin, how can you say she's not the perfect woman? :p

[Helgoland]

Heh, I was sitting with the back to you guys - I don't know how much movie watching she actually did Plus Battleship Potemkin is just a legitimately good movie.

[Sheb]

Yeah, I don't know which of bortsch or shovel is my favourite meme material from that day.

In genuine news, Portugal's president apparently will not allow the leftist winners of the last elections to try to form a government, because he is afraid of the financial market's reaction. We really need to get the democracy thing going again.

[scriver]

@Iran: Well, they probably shouldn't join the EU, but the EU is a regional project anyway - I don't see why we couldn't organize states in a similar manner one level higher.

Because the EU is already too removed from the people to function well and adding another level above it would just reinforce those problem by magnitudes.

[Helgoland]

Eh, there are some problems that can't be properly addressed on the levels we currently have. Climate change is the obvious example, but there's plenty more.

[Reelya]

Climate Change? Meh, we just need to get a high enough population so that we can vote through Launch Solar Shades in The Planetary Council without opposition.

[scriver]

Eh, there are some problems that can't be properly addressed on the levels we currently have. Climate change is the obvious example, but there's plenty more.

This wouldn't change by adding another level. Adding levels just reinforces the democratic issues of politicians ruling over countries and peoples they have no loyalty or representation to.

[Sheb]

How do you then address global-scale issues without some kind of global-scale body though?

I mean, I get it, you hate the EU, but in general, you should agree that some problems are better addressed at a supra-national level, right? And likewise, some other are better addressed at a sub-national level. Now, we can disagree on which prerogatives should go to which level (I think defense should be handled at the EU level for example, and I think you'd disagree), but do you agree with the general principle?

[scriver]

How do you then address global-scale issues without some kind of global-scale body though?

You can't address global scale problems through a global government in the current problem because people do not feel loyalty and responsibility to all of the world in equal measure. Hence global scale bodies will always favour the US, Russia, China, and other hegemones, just as the EU level body disproportionally favours Germany, France, or the UK. For a global body to work you'd also (you know, besides not being achievable in the reality of our reality) have to separate it from democratic procedure, and how great would that be?

I mean, I get it, you hate the EU

Sigh. As I have said many times before, no, I do not hate the EU. I do not want the EU to fail and/or disappear without a trace. I want the EU to change. But if you'd rather just dismiss my opinion and put words in my mouth than actually listen when I respond to you, then to ahead. It's sort of pointless though.

but in general, you should agree that some problems are better addressed at a supra-national level, right? And likewise, some other are better addressed at a sub-national level. Now, we can disagree on which prerogatives should go to which level (I think defense should be handled at the EU level for example, and I think you'd disagree), but do you agree with the general principle?

"Some problems" in an awfully nebulous concept to agree with. I would agree that we need a better ability to pursue criminals (from small time cheaters to organised crime) over borders. I do not agree that "defence" would be properly handled on a super-national level in our current climate. I do not feel confident that the big countries would put equal weight on the defense of the rest of us as they would on their own interest. And if, say, the situation on the West African coast started standing yo to the French fishing armadas that are currently emptying their waters of fish, then I don't want Swedish resources to defend their greed. Similarly, the inept handling of the current immigrant crisis gives me no hope that a German-dominated "european" defense wouldn't just ignore huge problems until the problems suddenly reach Germany's borders.

But mostly, the "general principle" of "some problems" bring handled on an international level is pointless to the discussion because the EU does not exist to handle only such problems. It is only relevant in your framing of the discussion as "this dude hates the EU", which only stems from you only listening to what you think I say rather than what I say.

[Helgoland]

Eh, you do come across as opposed to the EU on a rather fundamental level, what with all the concern about the crushing of small cultures and stuff like that. I honestly can't imagine what changes to the EU you could want that would not signify the abolishment of the EU to me - could you sketch it out?

@Disproportionally favoring the bigger entities: Yeah, we get that inside Germany too, mostly with Bavaria - but it doesn't make anyone wish to abolish the Bundesrepublik. Usually this effect is counterbalanced by giving the smaller entities disproportionate representation - inside Germany this happens via the Bundesrat, which is sort of like the senate, and the EU has multiple mechanisms for this as well. It's vital though that the main legislative body - in the case of Germany the Bundestag, for the EU the European parliament - is not fractured along lines given by the lower-level entities. This is one of the great problems that I have with the EU in its current form, by the way: A German representative in the European parliament is first and foremost a representative of the German and only then a representative of the European people, and the same holds for the other countries. I guess there's no quick fix for this though.

[sprinkled chariot]

Whats the state of nuclear power plants/ opinion about nuclear power in EU?

[Sergarr]

Whats the state of nuclear power plants/ opinion about nuclear power in EU?

You can look it up yourself. France is, predictably, in the lead there, being the best European country and all.