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[Neonivek]

Well.. there's also their super cool robots and way more powerful technology.

But I do agree that the Inner Sphere always seems more interesting. Clans are always the same. "Raarrr we are badass warriors who like fighting and honor and generic shit. Oh no you beat us in an archaic tournament and now we have to listen to everything you say cause we are easy like that."

Hence why the Clans are better as villains then they are protagonists.

Mind you it is always interesting to see the Inner sphere technology that is outright better then the Clans.

[ChairmanPoo]

The initial goal ($250,000) is exactly the same as the first stretch goal. Use some logic.

The initial funding meant that they were going to make the game even if the kickstarter fails.

And that's precisedly why the campaign is shady as hell. It's highly misleading.

I wish you the best of luck but I'm not throwing my money at this

[Mephansteras]

The initial goal ($250,000) is exactly the same as the first stretch goal. Use some logic.

The initial funding meant that they were going to make the game even if the kickstarter fails.

And that's precisedly why the campaign is shady as hell. It's highly misleading.

I wish you the best of luck but I'm not throwing my money at this

How is it misleading? They stated up front what was going on and what the kickstarter was for.

[ChairmanPoo]

...if they had the funds, and indeed  were going to make the game anyway, WHY OH WHY do this stunt of dumping their own cash upfront? Why not do a kickstarter from 0, in order to fund the stretch goals, and set a lower threshold target? The whole thing stinks, IMO. And considering how discredited KS are becoming as of late, I'm not about to risk my hard-earned €'s on this.

These people stated it better than me, IMO.

Wait, am I reading this right?

They start a kickstarter, and they're the first backers for it for 100% of the money.  So as soon as it begins, they're already 'at funding' by putting forth their own money, into themselves.  They've earned nothing, but on paper it shows them as earning a ton.

The way kickstarter works, if the project doesn't reach 100% then no credit cards get charged.  Because it is already at 100%, then ANYONE who backs it will be charged, regardless of how much money is made.  They've already made the 'first tier' project before even starting the kickstarter.  The 'second tier' is at 1mil.  So if they get backers for $500,000 then they don't have to do ANYTHING but because they made themselves start at 100%, that means they still collect the money and produce nothing new.

Is it just me, or is this the epitome of making something and cashing in on it twice, as well as possibly the scummiest kickstarter scheme possible, where they've assured themselves income no matter what happens?

I am sure the reason they also did it was to make it look like they had already been backed for a huge amount of money to get more people to jump on board as well...I am more than sure a ton of kickstarter projects that pull in a lot of money get a lot of money from people who use the logic "if so much money is put towards it nothing bad could happen!"

[Flying Dice]

GOD DAMN IT WE ALREADY HAD THIS DISCUSSION. On the same page, even.

That's not how it works, afaIk.
They have a funded game, but they want to add more features. The Kickstarter is to add more features.

Spoiler: Stretch Goal Graphic (click to show/hide)

Stage 1 is already funded by HBS, and is not part of the Kickstarter. Whether or not the Kickstarter fails, HBS is making a mech-based skirmish game.
HBS put $0 into the Kickstarter pool itself. That was all backers. People like their mechs.
I'm afraid it's just you.

Yep. Check the scaling again, Girlinhat: the base $250k goal was for the first addition to the base game they were already making. None of the money in the KS is theirs.

It's only shady if you're illiterate. The base skirmish game is explicitly marked as "HBS Funded", meaning that they were already making it. The Kickstarter was to fund additions to that base game, the first ($250k goal one) being the addition of non-mech AI vehicles. They're pretty clear about it in the KS if you bother to read it: "We're already working on this game, and if we get more funding we'll be able to make it bigger and better."

--

Thank fuck it's set pre-Clans, too.

[Anvilfolk]

To be fair, that we need to have this discussion indicates that they didn't make it was easy as it should have been to understand what's going on. I wonder how many people think this is shady enough not to back out there, even though it isn't.

I'm definitely considering increasing my pledge a little for there to be multiplayer though. This would also get me beta access to stuff, which would be nice. I mean, honestly, if I'm going to contribute money to Battletech stuff in general, it's not going to be on the tabletop stuff I have noone to play with. This is sponsored and led by the person that helped create Battletech in the first place, so that seems like that's the kind of project you'd want to back

I'm really hoping this is good. We really need a good story-driven Battletech game. We haven't had one since... I dunno... Mechwarrior 4: Mercs. I have some faith though. I really liked the studio's other games, though they were kinda limited in scope.

I feel a bit strange that they're just doing the Inner Sphere mechs due to the nature of the story but I guess that's fine. It'd be a fresh look at the series.

I hope the Uziel is in this. It's my favorite mech. Dual PPC all the way. Fast, capable, decently tough, powerful sting. I always take off the SRMs and the HMG and max out heat sinks on it.

Interestingly, I have the hardest time getting into story-driven games. Something about the fact that once you've finished it, they're done, just gets to me. Genuine and dynamic open world, like this Stage 2 just unlocked though? Right up my alley. Especially if there's MP persistence....

[ChairmanPoo]

GOD DAMN IT WE ALREADY HAD THIS DISCUSSION. On the same page, even.

That's not how it works, afaIk.
They have a funded game, but they want to add more features. The Kickstarter is to add more features.

Spoiler: Stretch Goal Graphic (click to show/hide)

Stage 1 is already funded by HBS, and is not part of the Kickstarter. Whether or not the Kickstarter fails, HBS is making a mech-based skirmish game.
HBS put $0 into the Kickstarter pool itself. That was all backers. People like their mechs.
I'm afraid it's just you.

Yep. Check the scaling again, Girlinhat: the base $250k goal was for the first addition to the base game they were already making. None of the money in the KS is theirs.

It's only shady if you're illiterate. The base skirmish game is explicitly marked as "HBS Funded", meaning that they were already making it. The Kickstarter was to fund additions to that base game, the first ($250k goal one) being the addition of non-mech AI vehicles. They're pretty clear about it in the KS if you bother to read it: "We're already working on this game, and if we get more funding we'll be able to make it bigger and better."

--

Thank fuck it's set pre-Clans, too.

1: I didn't insult you. I'd appretiate it if you reciprocated

2: Once again: Why didn't they start from 0, and make the KS exclusively about adding stretch goals to the base game, then? Which is exactly what I posted before. And which you not only didn't address, but instead began hurling epiteths instead. 

[Flying Dice]

Because... they did. The KS started at zero, with the premise of "We're already working on this base game. Want to add stuff to it?"

I'm honestly not seeing the disconnect here. The KS is exclusively about adding stretch goals to the base game. This is clearly and repeatedly stated on the KS page, in the funding graphic, &c. Hence: Illiterate, not as an insult, but rather as a descriptor (It's that or admitting that you didn't actually read the KS before condemning it). You have just described as your theoretical situation the actual state of the KS, which can be understood through the simple two-step process of navigating to the KS page and then reading it.

Like, there are justifiable reasons to not want to help fund it (Not liking BT, not trusting HBS because you didn't like how they adapted Shadowrun), but "I didn't bother to read the KS" isn't one of them.

[ChairmanPoo]

They paid up to their own kickstarter threshold. There's no reason to do this except either as a media stunt ("kickstarter reached in day 0! WOW!", or to make sure  that every pledge that is made gets cashed in, no matter what. Probably a bit of both.

[Dostoevsky]

None of the funding in the kickstarter is their own. The base skirmish game, which is provided at zero dollars (i.e. if the kickstarter bombed miserably) was "internally funded." Under their "why kickstarter" section (I've added in some bold):

"Because we’re an independent game studio with big dreams for an amazing game.

We know that to do 'Mech combat right will be a substantial investment - in fact, Harebrained Schemes has budgeted over a million dollars to self-fund the STAGE 1 SKIRMISH GAME (see below), and we've already started pre-production. We’re confident that we’ve scoped the project appropriately, and that we can deliver this version of the game without any Kickstarter support.

But, we also know that BattleTech isn't just about big stompy robots battling it out. There’s so much more we’d like to include in this game! A full single-player campaign. Full control of your career as a mercenary. PVP Multiplayer. That’s where you come in!"

The kickstarter's base goal is $250k. That $250k (of backer money, not their money) unlocks combined arms (as per the graphic linked earlier). If their self-described million dollars of internal funding went into the kickstarter, then things would have started already at 400% of their kickstarter goal and at stage 2, the single player campaign.

Does that help explain things?

[Flying Dice]

Thanks Dostoevsky, you got to it before I did.

[Anvilfolk]

Yeah, again, what they did isn't immediately obvious, and that's a problem. I'm sure there's lots of people who got excited enough to back this as a knee-jerk reaction, but maybe didn't because they went through the misunderstanding that Poo's going throo (hah, pun).

So yeah, this Kickstarter is basically all stretch goals, not really anything else. Game was gonna get done anyway, but probably wouldn't be nearly as cool without it. So, yeah, please do consider backing.

[Dostoevsky]

Yeah, to be honest the base skirmish game didn't sound terribly interesting to me (megamek, while awkward, does a good job of that and is free). I pitched in some money, but only after the stage 3 goal was met.

HBS (the developer) did their Shadowrun: Hong Kong kickstarter like this as well - they had already funded development of the game, but did a kickstarter for additional features. Back then, though, the funding goals were arguably less core to the game (another character on your team instead of making a proper campaign in the first place).

[Flying Dice]

Honestly, I don't see how it's confusing at all. "We are making a game with our own money. We'd like to make it better than we can with our internal funds; if we get A, B, and C levels of additional funding through KS, here are X, Y, and Z discrete features which we will be able to add to the game." seems pretty clear-cut.

That said, I don't think that funds are going to be allocated in the sense of "all money from goal Q will go only to reward Q, precisely"--I doubt it'll actually cost $250k to add in non-mech vehicles. What I expect is going to functionally happen is that the extra funding will go towards improving the game as a whole, with the rewards as concrete additions (as opposed to "we'll be able to hire another person to help with the art assets and give all of our artists more time to work on each element" and such).

I will say, though, I wouldn't have funded if I hadn't thought it would get to stage 3. I suspect they got a little hyped up themselves, though, considering that they confirmed the stage 3 reward as achieved when they were still $50k short of the goal (which supports my assumption above, I think). 

[My Name is Immaterial]

They were still $50k short of the goal (which supports my assumption above, I think). 

I think you're forgetting Paypal