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Author Topic: Answered: Ballista arrow passes through - does not hit - prone target  (Read 2931 times)

omega_dwarf

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Re: Ballista arrow passes through - does not hit - target
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2015, 11:56:32 pm »

Tried it out and, nope, catapults still miss him completely - sail right past him, thirty tiles away, no report in the combat logs. Was worth a shot, though. *Ba dum tsch*

If anyone knows the answers to those questions about pressure plates, I can get that secondary trap going and just sequester him for later use. I've just about given up on siege engines as a solution for this particular guy.

Edit: chopping trees above the surface-layer containment tunnel was a Very Bad IdeaTM. Luckily only one dwarf died, because I noticed the zombie miner crawling out in time...just as luckily, it was the broker who died, not one of the legendary craftsmen or siege operators.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Ballista arrow passes through - does not hit - target
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2015, 02:19:24 am »

The pressure plate should probably be set to not include citizens, as I guess you don't want them to trigger it, while the ex citizen does not trigger citizen pressure plates (in that capacity).

An elaboration of TruePikachu's raising drawbridge statement is that they DO atom smash upwards, but only on the "hinge" tiles, whereas they fling from everywhere other tile.

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Bumber

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Re: Ballista arrow passes through - does not hit - target
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2015, 05:27:28 am »

What about using heavy minecarts?
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

omega_dwarf

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Re: Ballista arrow passes through - does not hit - target
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2015, 09:41:10 am »

@Bumber

I'd been thinking about minecarts, but it's rather arduous to set up, especially when I don't have access to the surface for windmills. Could use a water reactor, but...cheeeeeeeap :P

@PatrikLundell

Thanks for the clarification. I've basically just avoided using traps with once-friendly zombies ever since a mishap with it that I vaguely remember, which has been perpetuated by my shady memory of the wiki article.

Bumber

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Re: Ballista arrow passes through - does not hit - target
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2015, 10:01:31 am »

Repeating spike traps are also an option. All you need is a lever puller.
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

TruePikachu

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Re: Ballista arrow passes through - does not hit - target
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2015, 10:32:29 am »

Regarding the minecarts, what about an impulse ramp?
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He likes Pokémon, composing ≡«☼characters☼»≡, Windows for its compatability, Linux for its security, and Pikachu for its electric capabilities. When possible, he prefers to consume pasta. He absolutely detests Apple.

omega_dwarf

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Re: Ballista arrow passes through - does not hit - target
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2015, 10:35:31 am »

@Bumber

Yeah, that's what I've done in the past to take care of it. I don't have access to steel right now, so it would be a very slow stabbing process.

@TruePikachu

I mean, I could. I've never done it before. But I'm trying to be non-cheaty about this :P Hence the ballista instead of a cage trap.


Construction on the bridge trap (for capture, not destruction) proceeds apace.

Atarlost

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Re: Ballista arrow passes through - does not hit - target
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2015, 11:52:24 pm »

@TruePikachu

I mean, I could. I've never done it before. But I'm trying to be non-cheaty about this :P

Just because you refuse to use glitched ramps to accelerate carts doesn't mean you can't use them in non-glitched configurations for the same purpose.  You just have to manually (or with rollers) reload the launcher.  Or in this case only use it once.  Maybe try rolling a lead or platinum minecart down a three z high straight (in x/y) inclined ramp into a lighter metal cart like maybe tin to get better flight distance. 
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omega_dwarf

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Re: Ballista arrow passes through - does not hit - target
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2015, 11:55:43 pm »

@TruePikachu

I mean, I could. I've never done it before. But I'm trying to be non-cheaty about this :P

Just because you refuse to use glitched ramps to accelerate carts doesn't mean you can't use them in non-glitched configurations for the same purpose.  You just have to manually (or with rollers) reload the launcher.  Or in this case only use it once.  Maybe try rolling a lead or platinum minecart down a three z high straight (in x/y) inclined ramp into a lighter metal cart like maybe tin to get better flight distance.

That would work if this weren't on the level directly below the surface. As it happens, though, I've trapped the zombie via other means and am working on a more permanent trapping arrangement. The surface is mine to venture timidly out onto once again.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Answered: Ballista arrow passes through - does not hit - prone target
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2015, 03:02:24 am »

If you've reclaimed the surface you COULD build a mine cart launching tower on it to eliminate the undead. I'm not suggesting that's a sensible or effort effective approach, though, just that you could if you wanted to.
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Sanctume

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Re: Answered: Ballista arrow passes through - does not hit - prone target
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2015, 09:56:28 am »

Is the zombie in an enclosed room / hallways? 

You can do a deadly coinstar room type. 
Enclosed room with retacting bridge linked to a lever. 
Set some serrated disk or ginzu knives items in there via stockpile or garbage dump. 
lure zombie in with cat.
forbid doors once inside.
pull lever on repeat.
watch as the room simulate a blender of zombie, knives and cat!

omega_dwarf

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Re: Answered: Ballista arrow passes through - does not hit - prone target
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2015, 11:46:15 am »

@PatrikLundell

Yeah, you're right, both in that I could and that I shouldn't :P

@Sanctume

LOL

I didn't know the bridge-over-floor thing also threw around items. I must use this in the future. However, the focus for now has shifted from destruction to capture. I'm doing something similar, except using my fortress population as the bait, and a pressure-plate-operated pillbox as the trap. The bonus is that he can be re-released against unfriendly forces.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Answered: Ballista arrow passes through - does not hit - prone target
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2015, 01:23:59 pm »

Using dorfs as bait sounds iffy. Civilians will normally run away as soon as they see the undead, which seems to be before the undead detects that there is something to chase, whereas the other civilians will suicide charge, as will the militia. Most of the time you don't need any bait at all, just a "free" path into your fortress (there are odd pathing problems, and I think the chance of success is greatest when the path goes towards the meeting hall without doubling back or, especially, passing it by above or below).

When it comes to underground power, I normally use induced flow aquifer water wheels. They're a kind of a cheat, yes, but they're probably more work to set up than "proper" aquifer to edge flow driven water wheels, and my justification is that they shouldn't have the FPS impact of an actual flow.
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omega_dwarf

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Re: Answered: Ballista arrow passes through - does not hit - prone target
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2015, 11:20:39 pm »

Yeah, that's what I meant. The only open oath into my fortress is through the trap zone. Sorry if I wasn't clear. It works reliably, but the undead move painfully slowly and I usually have issues with military ignoring burrow restrictions and trying to grab clothes off of dead merchants (which I immediately forbid when I notice, but they always seem to find something else...I've taken to locking them in a room during times like that.)

I'm going to try to set up windmills, as soon as I can start a large-scale construction project to protect them.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Answered: Ballista arrow passes through - does not hit - prone target
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2015, 03:17:29 am »

I'd consider changing the setting for items dropped on death back to the default, which is forbidden on death so you'd manually have to unforbid the items to collect them. I use that method to ensure the bodies are collected first and then they can race for the loincloths.

Windmills are a large pain. Firstly, it's basically up to chance if you get 0, 20, or 40 power out of them (if I remember correctly). Technically, it's based on embark latitude, but I think that breaks down on pocket embarks (so, if you're going to try it, build one test mill first to see if you get any power at all). Secondly, there's a lot of building for fairly meager results, especially with the middle yield and that you essentially have to lose a significant percentage in transmission (one gear below for 5, and then any axle losses). On top of that, it's a fair bit of additional work to build it in a building destroyer safe manner that doesn't leave holes for flyers/climbers to enter the axle shafts/tunnels (and that eats away further on the power actually made available).

Edit:
Trying to remember how I made a wind farm (with a fair bit of community help). I'm not 100% certain the description is correct, though.

Essential step: Make sure trees won't grow up under the wind farm. Cutting ANY tree "below" a wind mill (including a tree that just transformed from sapling) will tear down that wind mill, including anything that's supported from it (from my own painful experience). Thus, clear cut the area and either floor it, pave it, or place an empty stockpile over it (or build the wind farm entirely over rock).

The safe power shaft was made by building a 2 tile high frame around a 3*1 N/S tile space. On top of that a screw pump was built "pumping" from the south with the unpassable wall on top of the middle north tile of the box. An axle is built on the south side of the impassable screw pump tile (crossing the passable one) and a gear is added south of that (the "empty" tile above the pump source tile), and axles are added below that down to the ground.
The top of the box is then completed with walls and a roof over the passable screw pump tile. Build a scaffolding to add a three tile long axle out north from the impassable screw pump side and a gear north of that. Add four tile long axle segments out in the other three directions from the gear.
Once you've torn down the scaffolding you can safely dig a staircase from below up under the passable screw pump tile, as well as a shaft south of that to continue the axle downwards.

Now it's time to add the wind mills, one after the painful other. Build one windmill on top of the gear. Build one gear at the end of each of the 3 empty axles and a windmill on top of that. Expand the wind farm by adding axles out to the sides from the gears to the side as well as axles northwards from all of them. Repeat. Note that you only need the sideways axles on the bottom row, while all the other rows only expands northwards (like a many pronged pitch fork). Tear down scaffoldings as you go so the only parts vulnerable to destroyers are the latest ones the furthest out on the line. This basically means one scaffold for each windmill with some additions to allow the axles out from it to be built.

Again, the above was described from memory and might not be completely correct. Caveat Emptor!
« Last Edit: September 25, 2015, 04:02:43 am by PatrikLundell »
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