Topic: Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes (Read 1819 times)

neko.len.chan · « **on:** September 13, 2015, 08:43:39 pm »

So, I have been working on a (relatively large) mod for a while now. Most of it works great, but when I tried to do some things with syndrome gases, or fixed temperature gases, and also a kinetic breath attack, none of it worked. Rather, the materials exist, the breath attacks properly shoot the material; only, the material doesnt do anything. No instant freezing, no burning incineration, no syndromes, no being torn apart as I shoot cave-ins at things. Notably, it doesnt work in more situations than just breath attacks. I'll state the details as a list cause its easier that way.
- There are five materials that arent doing what they are supposed to. An extremely high weight solid used in solid breath attacks, a freezing mist which is below absolute zero (3 degrees urist), a burning mist hotter than dragonfire (80k if I remember right), and two syndrome mists for transformations.
- The mists (and the solid) do appear properly, and are the right color and stuff, but dont do anything.
- All of them, the gases and solids alike, end up coating whatever they touch as if they were a liquid.
- I have tested half of them (magefire, genokinesis, and frostfire) as material emissions, and half of them (dragonfire, regen, ascension) as creatures designed to instantly explode. the creatures DID explode and the gas did go everywhere.
- I checked and the creatures were inhaling the gases, and being caught in clouds of them (same message as dragonfire, except, different words (I mean actual dragonfire not dragonfire mist))

So I'll post the relevant raws below.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Materials. Stored in a text doc with plenty of other materials that function perfectly, if thats relevant.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

the creature with the breath attacks.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

the self-destructing creatures, if thats relevant.

I could post the rest of the mod if its necessary.

So could anybody help me out? whats causing this?

Oh, and also, there is no errorlog.

P.S. as a side note, is there any way to design breath attacks so the person who uses them is not themselves caught in the attack?

H4zardZ1 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 14, 2015, 07:26:37 am »

Quote

kinetic breath attack

Well, i tried to have a coal man cough up coal, but instead it coughed up ghost material that instakill almost everything.
Perhaps due to the coal man is already ghostly?

Quote

a burning mist at 80k

You cannot add temperature above 60.000 urist. It won't work.

neko.len.chan · « **Reply #2 on:** September 14, 2015, 09:50:33 am »

alright, so I can change the temp to 50k (actually theres a decent chance it already is I wasnt really sure what I put in), but that still doesnt explain why everything else doesnt work. For instance, I know kinetic attacks usually instakill almost everything, but mine dont. They actually just dont do anything. So what I want to know is why it isnt doing the instakill kinetic attacks (or at least badly damaging)
note: solid kinetic breath attacks push people around, but dont hurt them even a little bit. Not even the slightest shred of damage.

Hugo_The_Dwarf · « **Reply #3 on:** September 14, 2015, 10:04:23 am »

If you're doing breath attacks I believe the only ones that don't engulf the caster/user is the vanilla Dragonfire and Fireball(I think fireball up close turns into a fire blast, been awhile) however those are vanilla and don't allow you to customize. All breath attacks that we can mod seem to start on the user and go to the target instead of in front of creature (based on cast to direction) and onward

So no, currently no way to make sure the caster is not caught in their own 'custom' breath attacks. So when doing do some of them need to be customized or made generically as so to not hurt the caster (unidirectional dust will always hit the caster because of how custom breath attacks work currently)

also looking at your "hot" materials they are at 8999 which if I remember is cold http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Temperature vanilla fire template is fixed at 140,000 which burns most things

Also remember, the type of what the breath attack is "Undirected Vapor" will spew out your material starting at the "melting point" so an undirected vapor of rock would spew magma which will coat things with magma, which will cool to a coating of "rock" same thing with gas it will spew out the material at it's boiling point, and solid I'm sure is always below the melting point (because solid) which is why using water as a material to use will result in:
Solid = ice
Vapor = water
Gas = steam

I also have a really good self-distruct create from my own old mod that should still work for this version if you're interested in seeing how I did it (it sometimes survives to live another day, but rarely gets a 3rd life)

EDIT: Also how did you do your kinetic attack?

neko.len.chan · « **Reply #4 on:** September 14, 2015, 10:37:58 am »

My hot materials use fixed temperatures for heat. Or at least they are supposed to, I did that on another attack a while ago, does that not work anymore? the kinetic attack is a trailing dust attack

Hugo_The_Dwarf · « **Reply #5 on:** September 14, 2015, 10:58:30 am »

I'd suggest putting the melting point to the same as your fixed temp, just for breath attacks as the vanilla dragonfire and fireball/firecone are using actual ingame fire.

I know to get a sortof 2 part fire attack you can use the melting point under the fixed, and the fixed above the boiling, so a vapor attack will appear as sortof a fire like attack that will boil off to another form (which you can color) giving the effect of a fire/smoke kindof behavior.

And yeah dust attacks tend to do dmg if they push something violently into an object or of course off an edge. But I find the caster gets hit too which makes it awkward as they are knocked over/out like the target, Apparently flying creatures turn into rockets using that style of attack(as the caster).

but back to the "hot" materials I'm fairly certain (to my knowledge I feel 100% certain) that custom breath attacks use the realtive points of MELTING and BOILING based on SOLID, VAPOR, and GAS so your attacks even if fixed at 140,000 (flame material template) they still come out at the temp of really cold (8999) and have to heat up to a buring point in which they have either become coated on something (and coatings I don't believe harm what they are on, just the coating itself) it's the cloud that hurts.

But you said the syndromes were not affecting anyone?
I know frostfire and such are very very cold (not sure if that low works? I've never got a cold breath attack personally to work but I'm sure it's the syndrome you are concerned with)

neko.len.chan · « **Reply #6 on:** September 14, 2015, 11:14:51 am »

well really the thing is, none of the attacks work. And besides the breath attacks, the gases dont work as creatures set to explode either. People inhale syndrome gases, or gases set to 50k degrees, or gases with syndromes and set to 13k. They get covered in them, inhale them, are hit by them by multiple kynds of attacks and creatures exploding and as blood of creatures, and despite all of these things they still dont affect them in any way. The only gas that seems to have any effect at all is the kinetic attack- which doesnt actually hurt anything at all. It pushes them around, but it doesnt hurt them, even a slight amount.

Hugo_The_Dwarf · « **Reply #7 on:** September 14, 2015, 12:25:19 pm »

Have you used the Arena testing so you can use the 'z' menu to view a creature and see what syndromes are effecting it? (I know this is a 'well yeah' question but I feel I should ask it anyways) it's strange as they are contact SYN.

Try moving the [SYNDROME] definition to the bottom of the material? Not sure if that has a huge impact or not, but it's something to consider

neko.len.chan · « **Reply #8 on:** September 14, 2015, 12:28:43 pm »

ok, I wyl do all these things when I get home (not on that computer right now though)

But over all I feel its strange that systematically every single material fails to work properly. I mean if it was one or two it could be attributed to this. But I mean, not even one of them works properly. That seems rather strange, doesnt it?

Also, uh, yeah I use arena testing. I spawn in creatures made out of regen mist alot and they dont work. I spawn in lyke fifty ascension-mist-blobs on top of a lexta and they dont do anything. I shoot magefire at people and nothing happens. I spawn dragonfire mist at people and nothign happens. No syndromes, no melting, no transformations, no blood-freezing, nothing. Just coverings of liquids (which shouldnt be liquid at the temperature they are at) all over everybody. Even genokinesis, which has a very high melting point and is emitted as a solid, acts lyke a liquid and covers people just lyke a liquid.

Hugo_The_Dwarf · « **Reply #9 on:** September 14, 2015, 12:34:04 pm »

Yeah figured it was a well duh question (Thought I'd ask just in case) Also if I remember correctly temperature is messed up in the Arena so you might not be able to test hot/cold effects, but the syndromes should work though considering like I mentioned they are contact, and it's a vapor it will coat the victim and end result perform its contact effect

So to test hot and cold will have to embark with a test interaction on the embarked crew in a pocket world and have them spew it on fluffy animals, and see if they both suffer from the effects (since your test creature may most likely not be the actual intended user) so if it works in the game world (not arena) then you know the temperature is working, and it's just the syndromes that are having an issue.

neko.len.chan · « **Reply #10 on:** September 14, 2015, 12:36:12 pm »

I'll just use adventurer mode so I have more control over it.

That still wouldnt explain why the kinetic attack wont do any damage though...

neko.len.chan · « **Reply #11 on:** September 14, 2015, 12:38:39 pm »

wait I just remembered! I have used them in adventure mode, and none of them worked.

I'll check again after I set melting points and boiling points, though.

neko.len.chan · « **Reply #12 on:** September 14, 2015, 06:05:10 pm »

ok I fixed melting points, boiling points, fixed temps, and put the syndromes at the end of the files, then tested in both adventurer and arena. I made sure everything was inhaled as well. Also, I changed the attacks to function as gases.

Almost the same exact results. Notably, Dragonfire mist didnt die at fyrst- I had to cleave it open with an oblivion maul. It was solid at fyrst, but when it died it exploded in a cloud of gases that didnt do anything. still, nothing worked properly. No damage or healing or transformations of any kynd for anything after testing every attack.

Notably, even though they are now gases, the attacks still leave liquid residues.

Hugo_The_Dwarf · « **Reply #13 on:** September 14, 2015, 06:35:33 pm »

alright at some point I'll setup my DF and if you send me the mod as a zip i'll give it a rip and see whats going on

neko.len.chan · « **Reply #14 on:** September 14, 2015, 06:42:02 pm »

the... entire thing? should I just zip the entire raws folder? wait, I have a graphic pack, would that have to be included too? would I have to zip the entire game?

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Author Topic: Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes (Read 1819 times)

neko.len.chan

Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes

H4zardZ1

Re: Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes

neko.len.chan

Re: Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes

Hugo_The_Dwarf

Re: Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes

neko.len.chan

Re: Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes

Hugo_The_Dwarf

Re: Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes

neko.len.chan

Re: Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes

Hugo_The_Dwarf

Re: Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes

neko.len.chan

Re: Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes

Hugo_The_Dwarf

Re: Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes

neko.len.chan

Re: Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes

neko.len.chan

Re: Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes

neko.len.chan

Re: Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes

Hugo_The_Dwarf

Re: Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes

neko.len.chan

Re: Syndrome/temperature/kinetic gas woes