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[Tawa]

It's been sort of gradual. That description was maybe a little too inclusive, as well; I've just been seeing more comics about things like pedantics or vague philosophy that doesn't really make a point than usual.

Maybe it's just us, I dunno.

/derail

[werty892]

What's the difference between a cow and 9/11?

You can't milk a cow for 14 years.

[Frumple]

Why can't this just be a memorial?

Not replying or not, the question's been bugging for a bit. Largely, I think I've figured out an answer. Probably not the only one, or the best, but one.

It can't just be a memorial because we have a memorial. And it's in New York. Where it should be. Grief, respect and appreciation for sacrifice -- these are things that have to be felt, processed, and then let go, to be addressed and remembered later when needed, not like clockwork. You build your monuments, you observe your ceremonies, you express your grief and rage and so on as needed and appropriately (and we failed miserably on the appropriately part, but that's neither here nor there). And then you move on. You don't obsess on it for over a decade.

What we as a nation have been doing since a few short years after the event have not been memorials, have not been remembrances. It's been a national neurosis, played upon and viciously exploited by politicians and ideologues, at the expense and further exploitation of those that died during the attacks, the thousands of americans that died after because of our retaliations, and the hundreds of thousands of non-americans that have died because of our actions. For various reasons, but you can damn sure better believe few to none of them have been doing it for those lost, their families, and those that worked in the aftermath.

It's about more than a memorial because more than that is what much of the country is using it as, because it's unhealthy as hell, and because it's bloody close to impossible to call something "just" a memorial when it's ultimately drenched in a body count that's estimated to be over a million and rising.

... I'd actually agree that it'd be about as good as it could get if today had become just been a memorial, just a moment of respect for those that died and those that worked towards recovery. Would still consider it damnably strange to be observed on a national level, but that would still be better than what we've been doing. That it's not is part of the reason the unending reminder gets under my skin just about every time it comes up. It'd be damned desirable if this day stopped being politicized. And that's not going to happen until the dead are left to lay instead of dug up yet again. Or most of us that actually remember the attack finally die, I guess.

[werty892]

In addition, we directly caused 9/11. Enter the soviet invasion of Afghanistan. They went in to prop up the pro-socialist government, that was facing unrest. This was unacceptable to the US, since they could then escape containment. So, instead of going in a full out war, the US payed, trained, and brought Mujaheddin into Afghanistan to fight the soviets. Once they ground the soviets to a halt, and kicked them out, they wanted to return back to their native countries. They could not leave Afghanistan, as all their documentation had been taken, as a standard security protocol. However, the US had destroyed it all. Leaving these guys stuck there, and guess who would later go on to found Al Qaeda and ISIS? Those Mujaheddin.

[Veylon]

In addition, we directly caused 9/11. Enter the soviet invasion of Afghanistan. They went in to prop up the pro-socialist government, that was facing unrest. This was unacceptable to the US, since they could then escape containment. So, instead of going in a full out war, the US payed, trained, and brought Mujaheddin into Afghanistan to fight the soviets. Once they ground the soviets to a halt, and kicked them out, they wanted to return back to their native countries. They could not leave Afghanistan, as all their documentation had been taken, as a standard security protocol. However, the US had destroyed it all. Leaving these guys stuck there, and guess who would later go on to found Al Qaeda and ISIS? Those Mujaheddin.

The mujahaeddin were airlifted in from around the Arab World and most of them went back home - or moved on to new wars - when it was over. (What does lack of documentation mean to people who travel by smuggling routes?) They weren't stuck there. The people stuck there were the Afghans, who eventually came to resent the remnants of their overbearing erstwhile liberators enough to raise up the Taliban to kick them out. Then Mullah Omar was the hero for a while, hanging drunken mujahids, imposing law and order, and trying to make Afghanistan into a proper Islamic country.

The founder of Al Qaeda was a wannabe mujahid named Osama bin Laden who used his father's construction money to buy an army so he could play at Holy Warrior. He spent the years after the Afghan war keeping touch with the other guys and moving people and supplies around from war to war. Al-Qaeda means The Base. Eventually, after a couple of false starts, he paid Omar to let him run training camps in his country so that he could build his organization up into the one we know and love today. His delusions of grandeur led him to planning The Big One which he believed would help catapult him into the big leagues as some kind of all-Islam Holy War Leader so he could return to Saudi Arabia in a blaze of glory to humble all those who had dared slight him there.

So, no, it's not a direct line from the Afghan War to 9/11. It's an indirect one relying involving personality cults, propaganda, and a mess of politics that has nothing in particular to do with the West or America, such as the Cold War between Saudi Arabia and Iran (which, incidentally is why Iran was so helpful in the American invasion of Afghanistan; they'd been contemplating a move against the pro-Saudi Taliban themselves and being able to install a friendly government was quite the coup. The Saudis repaid them by helping bring ISIS into being so as to threaten pro-Iran Syria and Iraq.)

[SalmonGod]

Personally, I think it would be disgusting even if it were just a memorial, because it would still indicate an American culture that is spoiled and self-important as all fucking hell.  I wouldn't be nearly so outspoken about it, but it would still bug me.

The 9/11 terrorist attack was unique as a spectacle, but in terms of body count, it really wasn't so spectacular.  Far more people died on that very same day of other causes that I consider to be violent in nature, just like every other day.  It could be said that bringing this up turns the subject into a petty suffering olympics, but expecting the entire nation (or world according to plenty of people's attitudes) to respect a day of mourning over a singular event that happened years ago is like crafting yourself a suffering olympics gold medal and parading it around expecting everyone to congratulate you on your victory.

[Cthulhu]

Personally I remember when Goldberg lost to Kevin Nash more distinctly than I remember 9/11, and Goldberg happened first.

That's my 9/11

[LordBucket]

I was asleep when it happened. And then awakened by a roommate loudly  screaming something about the world ending and nuclear bombs. So I got up to see what was the matter. Saw a plane crashing into a tower on the news, realized it wasn't a big deal and went back to sleep.

How she confused planes crashing into buildings with a nuclear attack, I never did ask.

Some of my friends were badly shaken up by it, but it was a pair of of buildings I'd never seen in a place I'd never been to in a  state that nobody I know lives in.  That's not exactly a recipe for deep emotional attachment, and the severity of the event itself was relatively minor compared to far more mundane causes of death that we accept without a thought. Car crashes. Heart attacks. Diabetes. Stroke. The death toll on 911 was about 3 days worth of suicides in the US alone.

I think the people who are bothered by it... I think it's an issue of group identification. "The country was attacked" becomes "we were attacked" becomes "I was attacked" in their minds. It's the same basic phenomenon as people feeling bad when their sports team loses. "We" lost.

But no, "you" didn't lose. People you don't know and will never meet and who don't care about you lost a game that you don't play in a place you've never been.

Some people have a strong sense of group identification. And for those people, events like 911 can be difficult.

[SalmonGod]

I think it's because it challenged a sense of security that American culture had enjoyed for a very long time, so deeply rooted and taken for granted that most never realized it.  And being forced to suddenly consider the idea that harm could come to them so close to their American homes from an un-American source, almost as if they were living in one of those other countries that they so loved to tsk tsk tsk at for not being able to get their shit together, was something most had never developed the capacity to emotionally process without flipping out.  So this group identification arose spontaneously from all these millions of people suddenly realizing that they all collectively shared the potential to become victims of a vaguely defined, unpredictable threat, no matter how remote that potential could be reasoned to be.  Politics and media knew this, and successfully did everything they could to keep these emotions present and strong in everyone's minds.

[Fniff]

I don't agree with chalking it up to group identification. I wasn't hurt by it, I'm Irish not American, and I was 3 at the time. It's still a horrible event to me and it makes me scared thinking about it.

I think the reason why no-one cares for mundane deaths, instead focusing on these extravagantly horrible situations... is in itself it's own reason. They're mundane. You know about it, and that makes it easier to deal with. I know people who have serious heart problems; they're unhealthy or have bad genetics (That's with a lot of simplification, but bear with me). I don't know anyone who's been hurt by a terrorist attack. How do I prepare for that? It makes me scared, and it makes people scared, even though there hasn't been any attacks that were as bad as 9/11.

If you want a nasty, cynical metaphor, 9/11 was Al Qaeda's one hit wonder. Amazing spectacle, great story, loads of hype as the media discovered them... then nothing else from there. Not sure what ISIS would be in this. Perhaps that'd be this hypothetical band turning out to be huge in Japan Syria.

[BigD145]

Plane hijackings were invented by the CIA against Cuba. For all the preemptive aggression the US has perpetrated against almost every country on the planet it was no surprise that military and/or financial centers would be targeted. If a single truck bomb couldn't take down one of the towers from the bottom up, it would take quite a bit more to get them down. Americans just have a very short memory and attention span when it suits them. They forget their country throws punches first. They act all horrified that anyone would dare strike back. "You hit me after I killed your entire family? HOW DARE YOU!" The yellow cake BS worked very well to pick a new target.

[Bohandas]

EDIT:
Redacted because saying that bankers and executives should each count as less than a person is perhaps a bit over the top

[Frumple]

You should go with 3/5ths, make the ridiculousness of what you're saying more evident.

[Strife26]

In addition, we directly caused 9/11. Enter the soviet invasion of Afghanistan. They went in to prop up the pro-socialist government, that was facing unrest. This was unacceptable to the US, since they could then escape containment. So, instead of going in a full out war, the US payed, trained, and brought Mujaheddin into Afghanistan to fight the soviets. Once they ground the soviets to a halt, and kicked them out, they wanted to return back to their native countries. They could not leave Afghanistan, as all their documentation had been taken, as a standard security protocol. However, the US had destroyed it all. Leaving these guys stuck there, and guess who would later go on to found Al Qaeda and ISIS? Those Mujaheddin.

Freakin Charlegmane. He's responsible for September 11th.

[USEC_OFFICER]

You are obviously not thinking deeply enough. Charlemagne wouldn't have formed the Holy Roman Empire if the regular Roman Empire didn't collapse. And why did the Roman Empire collapse? Because it was attacked by foreign barbarians terrorists during a period of internal destability. Thus terrorism caused 9/11. Checkmate, atheists.