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[BFEL]

I agree B9 is a bad idea. Fomorians in general, and sacred ones in particular, have high MR.

Would it be a bad idea for me? I was thinking of going N9B9 with my supergiants to make up for smaller peeps getting more attacks per square, and because you poor squishy bastards aren't in for enough suffering already
But if its just going to be resisted by everything ever I'll do something else.

Quick question: Does the quickness afforded by W9 give extra attacks per turn or just more mobility? TOTALLY unrelated.

their flying sacred guys are kinda' junk, and my first thought is that the only thing that would really make them approach competative would be taking advantage of the stormpower and darkvision... somehow (and considering all the formorians are 50% darkvision, probably not even that would manage).

Well not entirely true. While my Giants are 50 darkvision all my lesser formorians strangely have no darkvision at all. (I THINK that's strange, I might just be misremembering that darkvision is usually ubiquitous for formorians)

[IWishIWereSarah]

I agree B9 is a bad idea. Fomorians in general, and sacred ones in particular, have high MR.

Would it be a bad idea for me? I was thinking of going N9B9 with my supergiants

What E. Albright means is that the B9 bless won't do much against the giants : There is a test against MR to see whether the damage reversal is applied, but they have high MR, so they won't get hurt that much.

The W9 bless gives 1.5 attack per turn : you get to do all your attacks once more every other turn.

Oh and about the sacred arbalests : don't forget that they're even slower than crossbows. They fire only once every 3 turns. I haven't tested them, but against 70 HP giants, I don't think they may be that useful. With a N9 bless, I think the giants may regen more than the damage they receive, maybe even with a F9 bless.

[BFEL]

Hmm, I think I'll just stick with the N9B9 then. I really only intend that as a counter to massed small fry so it being ineffective against similar sized units isn't as big an issue.
Besides, I don't think I have any decent pretender choices for N9W9 anyway, and I found one that handles the N9B9 awesomely so yeah.

[IWishIWereSarah]

Remarks after a bit of testing :
I'm disappointed.
I don't have a commander version of the werewolf fomorian, and they're clearly not effective against giants.
My 2 main paths are Air and Death :
Death feels useless against the (other) giant nations : they have high max-age, so decay doesn't really affect them, and high MR and morale, so most effects don't apply.
My highest air is A3. So I need A4 on my pretender to get access to boosters and/or storm. Moreover, storm doesn't really affect most Giant nations (lack of ranged units), reduce the utility of my werewolves (throwing axes), and even helps Hobnia (stormpower sacreds).
My lack of good size2 units (only ones are non-armored runners that go faster than the werewolves) means that I have empty space in my on-giant fomorian formations.
and my only range weapons are nets on the runners and throwing axes on the cap-only werewolves :/

Gonna be difficult. Gonna be !!fun!!

Hmm, I think I'll just stick with the N9B9 then. I really only intend that as a counter to massed small fry so it being ineffective against similar sized units isn't as big an issue.
Besides, I don't think I have any decent pretender choices for N9W9 anyway, and I found one that handles the N9B9 awesomely so yeah.

You get access to the middle-american pretenders, yeah

[BFEL]

Hmm...so I made the pretender I want, but I'm...iffy on how to send it. I read the OP, so do I send it via email to that address? And will I need something special to upload it or whatever?

BFEL is bad at these things 

[IWishIWereSarah]

You made your pretender using the tool in the "game tools" menu ?
If so, you should find it near your usual "savedgames" location, in a folder named "newlords". It should be a file named modnat_XXX_0.2h (with xxx being a number).

Then you send it as an attachment to "pretenders [at ] llamaserver [dot ] net", using "Bay12GamesRound417" as the mail title.
The server should automatically recognize it, and will list your nation (or rather "unexpected nation" as it's a modded one). It may take up to 20 minutes before it's listed


I just saw something :
It will be hard for me to cast globals.
I'm mostly a air and Death nation (with A3 D3 capital income, and corresponding mage paths). There are at least 4 nations with at least a mage with 3+ each paths (including 2 nations with the same A/D combo), and Turland even has 6 Death gem income. what is fun is that they're one of the worst nations for a Burden of time global (with only 1 unit+commander with high max-age) :p


PS: Pretender sent.
Now, I know i'll lose this game

[EnigmaticHat]

Umm... if I tell Frumple how to be invincible would you guys be mad?

So I take it no one minds then?

[Boksi]

I don't particularly mind. Feel free to take a look over my nation too

I've actually sent in my pretender but I'm not too happy with it.

[IWishIWereSarah]

As long as you say it in the thread, I don't mind

I've actually sent in my pretender but I'm not too happy with it.

With berserk 5 on your giant sacreds, a E9 bless (or even better N9E9) could be really nice. They begin at 14, +5 from berserk +~5 from bless, putting them at a nice value, meaning they won't get hurt that much. the reinvigoration part is cool because of he extra fatigue of berserking. Adding N9 if possible is always nice on giants.
Also, you have access to the African pretenders (the Neters), which are nice titans. I don't think they fit really well wit your national mages/gems, but, meh :/

[Frumple]

... yeah, go ahead and tell everyone. At this point, I'm curious exactly what you're thinking about. Checking things over again, I'm not seeing any spells that'd be terribly game changing (that other nations don't have access to, anyway), and even less things that would actually make it substantially likely I live to get them :V

And my nationals are kinda' not worth mentioning, ha. Most survivable thing in it is probably the 16 defense van, which is using a short sword, and in testing is... not really survivable at all. To basically anything. Like everything else in the roster, heh.

[IWishIWereSarah]

Well, this Van is a Van : 13 HP (higher than humans), has 15 prot on the body, 16 defense, and Glamour.
And the commander version can lead 120 units, so I think you can raid anybody

[EnigmaticHat]

Alrighty.

Take an N9 green dragon pretender, research evocations 5, alterations 2, and thaumaturgy 1.  Then take your N1S1 sacred mages, and put them in a top heavy communion.  As in, you want at least twice as many masters as slaves.  My recommendation would be 6/2, 12/4, or 30/8.  Bless all the slaves, and then have one of the masters cast personal regeneration.  This will, I believe, give all of the slaves 20% regeneration and a significant health boost.  Any fatigue you add after 200 will be converted to damage, but not at a very high rate; it should all get regenerated away.

Then spam stellar cascades until the entire enemy army falls over unconscious.

Invincibility was an exaggeration, but it will make short work of sacred giants and be really painful against rank and file fomorians.  Bonus points that you should be able to cast small numbers of high level spells in schools that the slaves don't have and they'll still survive (I hope).

[Frumple]

... the bless would give them 8 extra HP, and 10% regen. Which would mean they might get 2 hp per turn regen :V

The personal regen would give 20% total, which would be... 3 hp regen. Maybe 4 depending on the rounding. Guess I can test to see if that's actually enough to offset the health damage in that scenario.

Stellar cascade spam was one of the ideas behind the basic "use communion" thing, yeah, but... invincible, or even terribly substantial benefit, isn't something I'm expecting out of it. There's a lot of death access out there, at least one nation that can do the same thing, and more than one that can probably just blow up my base 10 hp casters, 7 point boost from an N bless or not. Plus the problems involved in surviving until I reach evo 5, and keeping those squishy mages alive, especially with an assassin nation on the map and plenty of folks that have fliers that can probably screw over anything I put on the defense.

You said invincible! Still very, very vincible. Also yeah, in that scenario I'd be going with the great mother, horned one, or the lord of the forest -- better paths, stronger dominions, better cost on adding some diversity. Plus I just don't like the dragon pretenders

... still, thanks for the reminder about the fatigue thing. I'll have to do some testing on that, see if I can get anything from it.

E: Though in testing, the regen doesn't actually mitigate the damage with those numbers. Slows it down, but especially once the script ends they start losing like a fifth of their HP per turn. Plenty to get a lot off, but...

Will have to try some more with more slaves, less masters. Or just toss the regen thing entirely, heh.

[EnigmaticHat]

Well then, you'll just have to use Solar Rays on the undead.  Fliers... well, if you survive more than one turn you win, same as usual.  Poison Cloud, Astral Geysers, any of the lightning spells should all be able to make half their army route in decent order (remember at close range most of your spells will hit).

If you can get up two more levels to evo 7 you could do something like Communion Master>Power of the Spheres>Storm Power>Shimmering Fields>Shimmering Fields.  With four slaves and an A2 communion master that'll bring you up to A6.  Alternately forget Power of the Spheres and do it with Orb Lightning.  Either way its a suicide communion but that's a pretty nasty trick for a nation with such low air magic.

If you want to survive against Rain of Stones and the like you'll really want someone who can forge crystal matrixes for instant communions.  Everyone leads the fight by casting Body Ethereal.  Alternately, script everyone with body ethereal>communion master/slave>a bunch of resist-or-die/mind control effects.

But yes, very vincible.  I was mostly meaning as a counter to your early expansion weakness and sacred vulnerability.  I will say that, sadly, since you rely so much on communions you're going to suck on the attack.  On the plus side, thaumaturgy has some good spells for you.  Not many nations can say that.

[BFEL]

Ok, pretender sent to the appropriate authorities.
Prepare for disappointment/abject terror.