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Should we be proud of our Giant War Keas?

GO KEAS WOOUH!
- 28 (93.3%)
...They suck.
- 2 (6.7%)

Total Members Voted: 30


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Author Topic: 'Murderflood: (Ardentdikes IIIv3) You, there, grab this save!  (Read 229178 times)

Taupe

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Re: 'Murderflood: Resurrection II: The Reboot (Ardentdikes IIIv3)'
« Reply #90 on: September 11, 2015, 06:55:34 pm »

Sure. 

Be warned - I generally use Phoebus and not ASCII, so my updates will take longer than yours since I'll have to sort out the tile meanings.
Yeah ascii is a bitch at first, but dfhack helps a lot. Clicking on things to know what they are is very very helpful. The default tileset seem intimidating, but it's by no mean the most off-putting aspect of dwarf fortress. If you already know how the game works, the interface will come easily to you. It really looks more complicated than it actually is, and convincing yourself to give it a shot was the hardest part of your learning experience. That's not an understatement. I never touched ascii before jumping into it blind and absolutely shit-faced for DRUNK fortress, and I somehow understood what I was dealing with. It's just like a pool. The water stops feeling so cold once you actually dive right into it with a deep breath. That being said...

A very basic ascii guide to what Murderflood contains:

% is a barrel, many a food stockpile
- That's a wooden log, ours are copperish/beige because we have highwood. They look like a fatter version of a stockpile tile.
--
-- Stockpiles. Highlights to green when selected
[ That's a piece of clothing. You'll find many around. Morphing into bears and dying does that to a place.
/ are weapons, or picks. Color match the material, in our case mostly copper
O are coffins. We have like 12 right now.
The round n next to them are of course slabs
╤ Tables look just like a table should look. If tables needed a single leg.
╥ Chairs are like tables, but obviously they need two legs.
♫ and √ are armor and weapon racks. Don't even ask.
ó That's a lever. We have three, and Notes will help you locate them. I'm not sure the zombie crusher was completely linked.
Θ That's a bed. Four in the barracks, 6 in the lower dorm.
A filled rectangle is an unused block, of the corresponding stone color. Microcline and Rhyolite is what we have.
A filled flat oval is a boulder, and uses the same color scheme. You'll find them mostly in the lower level.
are gems.
 ♦ are cut gems. Color coded for convenience, like rocks.
Moving letters are creatures. Those same, unmoving redder letters are their corpses.
Workshops vary, but they are hard to miss (3x3). To know how many (or if we have any) of a workshop already, the building menu for workshops will state how many currently exist.

The fortress is young, and apart from that, there shouldn't be many things lying around. If you have trouble, just click on stuff and dfhack should tell you what the hell they are. It's a bit confusing at first, but once you understand the basics your df reflex will kick in and you'll get the hang of it. Cycling between a lerts, r eports and u nits will help you find the problems that really matter by zooming on them. The stock menu is also a good way to know what we have (instead of browsing around) and can also be used to zoom to the things you want. Use the manager if you don't care about locating every workshop all the time. that's what I do in succession game, not because of the tileset, just because it's simpler than understanding where things are, and a flow of cancellation spam will tell you anything you need to know about poorly designed industries.

Good luck and have fun! Remember, it's easier than it looks!
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 10:21:48 pm by Taupe »
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Urist McKiwi

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Re: 'Murderflood: Resurrection II: The Reboot (Ardentdikes IIIv3)'
« Reply #91 on: September 11, 2015, 09:35:20 pm »

Alas, my time zone meant I couldn't get in fast enough. Chuck me somewhere on the list for later...just don't take a year to get there, M'kay?
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Taupe

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Re: 'Murderflood: Resurrection II: The Reboot (Ardentdikes IIIv3)'
« Reply #92 on: September 11, 2015, 10:18:17 pm »

Alas, my time zone meant I couldn't get in fast enough. Chuck me somewhere on the list for later...just don't take a year to get there, M'kay?
Yeah, not spending three months on the average turns is pretty much my focus. The original turn order was Ghills Triaxx Me You, so I'll just put you on year 4 here. You won't be waiting too much. Sounds fair?

Urist McKiwi

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Re: 'Murderflood: Resurrection II: The Reboot (Ardentdikes IIIv3)'
« Reply #93 on: September 12, 2015, 01:02:03 am »

Alas, my time zone meant I couldn't get in fast enough. Chuck me somewhere on the list for later...just don't take a year to get there, M'kay?
Yeah, not spending three months on the average turns is pretty much my focus. The original turn order was Ghills Triaxx Me You, so I'll just put you on year 4 here. You won't be waiting too much. Sounds fair?
Seems good to me.
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Gwolfski

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Re: 'Murderflood: Resurrection II: The Reboot (Ardentdikes IIIv3)'
« Reply #94 on: September 12, 2015, 04:41:50 am »

why not just install the phoebus graphics pack? i hoinestly think its one of the best and shouldnt mess anything up.
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Triaxx2

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Re: 'Murderflood: Resurrection II: The Reboot (Ardentdikes IIIv3)'
« Reply #95 on: September 12, 2015, 06:02:52 am »

ASCII is the best. And we're trying to avoid anything that'll cause a problem.

Besides, when in doubt 'k'.
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Gwolfski

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Re: 'Murderflood: Resurrection II: The Reboot (Ardentdikes IIIv3)'
« Reply #96 on: September 12, 2015, 06:07:36 am »

I get headache from ascii. have you modded raws while generatring the wotld? i f no, phoebus will NOT interfree with dwarffortress.exe running its calculations. I know i shouldnt say this, but ascii is ... not good at all. afters seeing stuff like phoebus
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Zuglarkun

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Re: 'Murderflood: Resurrection II: The Reboot (Ardentdikes IIIv3)'
« Reply #97 on: September 12, 2015, 08:11:32 am »

Look, I don't mean to step on anyone's toes, but I'm afraid I will have to side with Gwolfski.

OK, so two things you all need to know.

Firstly, the world was genned in 40.24 (latest version as far as I am aware), DF Starter Pack r15 (PyLNP) in Ironhand tileset, Printmode: 2D. I overwrote the raws to ASCII before passing the save the Taupe. So if there is a small chance of raw corruption from overwriting tilesets, than I'm afraid I've already started the rockfall that would result in a landslide.

Secondly, I just don't agree with tilesets being the issue. I know with our prior experience, there are some real fears about game crashes that would undo everyone's progress up to that point. Its better to be safe than sorry, but the problem with old Murderflood being unplayable and crashing comes down to save crashing and poor FPS just being a poor combination.

The game crashing was due to the old fort being (1) brought forward about 10 versions, (2) FUCKING TREES and CONSTRUCTIONS not playing well with each other in this version and (3) the raws being modded (I know because I spent some time looking over the raws to find out why DFHack would not work and the tilesets would not display properly. Lo and behold I found traces of TEHLOLMOD in the raws for old Murderflood).

The new Murderflood should not have most of these problems, being genned in the latest version without any tampering to the raws (game is still vanilla as far as I know even with the tileset overwrites), as well as being desert all around. Sure there is still a risk of crashing, with the most crash prone trees being the very rare highwoods. But it can be worked around, hence the "floor before you build" rule. 4 tiles worth of floors in all directions (diagonally too) should prevent any and all tree crashes. As long as we stick to this and try to preserve FPS, I don't see how its gonna be a problem.

I'm no DF veteran, but with years of reading old forts like Boatmurdered and playing MUDs like Angband, I'm not unused to the ASCII imagery and I think I've got a good handle of what the various icons are. I don't think its a problem to decipher them when the forts clean and neat. But a few years into the fort? Man shit is every-fucking-where, can't tell one item from the other, and using [k] on every fucking thing is just tedious. By then, the fort is already a headache all around to manage, not being able to decipher shit just pours oil onto the dumpster fire.

TLDR: If it comes down to it, I don't think playing in ASCII is that big of a problem for me at least. Tedious but not impossible. But as long as it does not fuck with the save game, I would strongly prefer to play in the tileset of my choice.

P.S. Sorry about the venting, but vanilla ASCII is just... a headache.

Sethatos

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Re: 'Murderflood: Resurrection II: The Reboot (Ardentdikes IIIv3)'
« Reply #98 on: September 12, 2015, 08:46:27 am »

I was like, "Oh I should check the thread, I wonder if I'm dead yet."
Yep.
Oh well, great Fort still
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Taupe

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Re: 'Murderflood: Resurrection II: The Reboot (Ardentdikes IIIv3)'
« Reply #99 on: September 12, 2015, 09:30:46 am »

Well, reading from Zuglarkun, I guess tilesets arent such a deal if people revert the save to default before handing it over. So do as you please, people.

Triaxx2

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Re: 'Murderflood: Resurrection II: The Reboot (Ardentdikes IIIv3)'
« Reply #100 on: September 12, 2015, 10:25:38 am »

I'm in the against camp, but as long as the game keeps working, I don't really care.
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Zuglarkun

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Re: 'Murderflood: Resurrection II: The Reboot (Ardentdikes IIIv3)'
« Reply #101 on: September 12, 2015, 10:41:59 am »

I'm sorry if the points I made came off a little harsh, I just thought that those issues were already addressed and explained in the previous thread and were just unrelated in anyway to tilesets or graphics.

Triaxx2

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Re: 'Murderflood: Resurrection II: The Reboot (Ardentdikes IIIv3)'
« Reply #102 on: September 12, 2015, 11:04:00 am »

The thing is that two of my turns were incredibly difficult because nothing looked like it was supposed to. Chances are that was a cross versioning issue, but when you've learned to look for one thing and find that you've got to search for something completely different, it makes it hard to play.
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Zuglarkun

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Re: 'Murderflood: Resurrection II: The Reboot (Ardentdikes IIIv3)'
« Reply #103 on: September 12, 2015, 11:14:51 am »

Yeah I took the turn after you and encountered that same problem. To be honest, I'm encountering the same problem (again) with my turn in Constructivory and after looking into the issue, I think its largely a graphics pack issue. Seems like folks installed the tilesets and graphics pack then changed the tileset back to ASCII without removing the graphics folder from the raw folder in the save (graphics pack concern the sprites for dwarves and creatures, whereas tilesets deal with everything else).

Like THIS perhaps? Cause that's what I encountered. Or is your problem different?

EDIT: Come to think of it, i remember some of the rock layers being presented in a different tile set than from what I'm used to as well. You might have a point with it being some tile set problem.

EDIT EDIT: OK tilesets being b0rken in old murderflood is definitely not a problem with the tileset NOR the 10 versions the previous fort was played over. So its not a cross versioning issue. Turns out it was a problem with LNP r8. Detailed here. So fucking tired of all this investigative work.

Carry on! Nothing to see here.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 12:54:35 pm by Zuglarkun »
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Vuohijumala

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Re: 'Murderflood: Resurrection II: The Reboot (Ardentdikes IIIv3)'
« Reply #104 on: September 13, 2015, 07:36:38 am »

I'm in the against camp, but as long as the game keeps working, I don't really care.
Same here. I usually use Phoebus, but for this fort I'm going to use a version without any modifications. Don't want to mess anything up.
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