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[intently]

I've just uploaded a map of my 2-year-old fortress:
http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-676-ducimalisworkkiss

I dug straight for the magma and am building my lair between the chasm and the magma, and my fortress looks a lot different than many of those I see uploaded.  Am I doing something wrong?  Why do so many people stay west of the river?

Anyway, give me some suggestions after you take a look, this is the longest I've survived so far!

[FaultyLogic]

It looks good to me. It's the same kind of fortress that I like to build. Not to much open halls, but more cozy corridors. I didn't look to hard though, I am a tad tired.

[Haedrian]

Building between magma and chasm is a problem for 5 reasons

1) Traders, and a massive distance between the depot and the entrance, or between the goods and the depot
2) Trees, need a loooong walk to get, but an underground forest should suffice
3) If a dwarf goes on break and decides to visit the entrance, or to collect some item from outside....
4) Once you hit the demons, if they cross the magma, you're in trouble, you don't have much space to lose before the panic begins
5) Most importantly: Attacks from Chasm + Attacks from magma = you have two sides to defend.

I wish you luck

[intently]

Thanks for the responses.

quote:1) Traders, and a massive distance between the depot and the entrance, or between the goods and the depot
2) Trees, need a loooong walk to get, but an underground forest should suffice
3) If a dwarf goes on break and decides to visit the entrance, or to collect some item from outside....
4) Once you hit the demons, if they cross the magma, you're in trouble, you don't have much space to lose before the panic begins
5) Most importantly: Attacks from Chasm + Attacks from magma = you have two sides to defend.

1. Do traders EVER have anything useful?
2. That's why I've got some beds near the gateway, for the carpenters and lumberjacks.
3. That's why I've got a zoo and sculpture gardens.
4. Yeah, I've never fought demons before, I'm worried about them.
5. The chasm attacks have been nothing so far, maybe 3 molemen.

[Eagle of Fire]

The main reason which go over all other when I think where I want my fortress to be located is the farm location, and thereby the location or if you'd prefer poximity of my dining hall to the food stockpile... Which is just next to the farms.

Cut a lot of walking time that way at the beginning. Since I hardly ever build more than magma forges next the magma, there is little my dwarves do on that side of the map. Farming, however, is a yearly process.

Efficiency wins. At least for me.

Edit:

1) Yes. A lot. The leather for a first, the food if you are low on stock for a second... Of course, elven traders are not really worth mentionning on the matter.
2)Doing so is the same principle than building near the entrance and building beds and bedrooms for the magma operators.
3)Yup. But it take a lot of time to do. Especially for the zoo.
4)And you should be...  
5)They'll increase exponentially as you bother them more and more. Which is extrapolated from some actions you do and your fortress size in number of dwarf and wealth, if I remember well. You could nuke them to make sure they're not a threat.

[ August 22, 2007: Message edited by: Eagle of Fire ]

[intently]

Well, you can easily bring the water to the magma, but it's a lot less efficient to bring all the good ore back out past the river.

[Eagle of Fire]

I fail to understand why you would do that...

[intently]

I just mean that water can be brought towards the magma for farming.  Ore has to be carried out piece by piece.

[JadeFalcon]

I build my forts like yours with hallways all over also,but prefer to build between the river and chasm because when I start chaseing all the good ore veins past the chasm it tends to mess up my plans for fort expansion.Plus as some others have mentioned I farm the west side of the river and drop a food storage just across from it on the east side with a dining room either beside that or across the hall.

Traders can be handy mainly for various leather types you can't get yourself but also once you get the broker noble I think it is (I forget exactly which does it)you can make trade agreements with some and order in whatever you want.

[KrunkSplein]

Building near the magma is a very viable fortress concept.  You have fortifications and traps near the access points to the magma/chasm, so those threats aren't so big a concern.  I'd slowly switch to weapon traps as you are able, for increased damage and the fact that they don't always need to be cleaned, so you can theoretically kill an entire siege with a single trap.

You have the beds near the gate to deal with lumber, and that's good.  They also seem to have a separate dining area, which should reduce their walking back and forth for food/drink.

The caravans can be immensely useful.  However, given the distance from the trade depot to the goods, you're going to spend a lot of time hauling once the time comes.  That, coupled with your relatively narrow corridors, could be problematic.  You can always move the trade depot further back into the mountain to help alleviate that, but it's important to keep it close enough so that the Humans can get all of their mules and wagons unpacked before it's time for them to leave.  This would also provide a second access point for siege entry.

Hope this helps!  Keep up the good work!

[Bluefire]

It's not really related, but it seems like a good place to ask. After dwarven economy starts and every dwarf pays for his room, it seems unlikely that the dumb dwarves will pick the closest room to their working place. So how beds near the outside in a chasm fort or beds near the magma in a river fort atcually attract their targets?

On topic, your fortress looks good to me. I'm no pro, but I do know it's fine and that I like it, and your noble rooms are almost identical to mine. The dwarf rooms nor, however, though you can put a coffer and a cabinet there. I like to make 2*2 rooms so the dwarves won't have to climb over stuff to get to their beds, but that's just me and my too realistic aproach.

[ August 22, 2007: Message edited by: Bluefire ]

[Deathworks]

Hi!

IIRC, wages differ according to experience or something, with nobles and legendaries being free-loaders. So, if that is correct, you should be able to control living areas by checking wages, distributing jobs accordingly and provide housing of varying quality.

BTW, I was always glad about my elven traders bringing me dyed cloth, but these past two years, no cloth. Instead two barrels of alcohol and some wooden crafts. Well, the alcohol isn't bad (drink + extra barrel), but I miss the cloth (T_T)

From the discussions I have heard in the forums so far, fortresses between outside and cave river are actually not that frequent among the regulars here.
The wiki has a nice list of the various pros and cons of the various locations:
http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fortress_Placement

Deathworks

[Tarrasque]

Yeah, I usually prefer to put my Fortress after the cave river. Either before the Chasm or between the Chasm and the Magma. I am going to post about a fortress that should be a right challenge in another one and we'll see how it goes.

[RP]

quote:Originally posted by Haedrian:
5) Most importantly: Attacks from Chasm + Attacks from magma

Ain't it grand when that happens? I never knew blinking '&'s could be so terrifying.

[mickel]

quote:Originally posted by intently:
<STRONG>I've just uploaded a map of my 2-year-old fortress:
http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-676-ducimalisworkkiss

</STRONG>

Pardon the stupid question, but how do I view the map? All I see is a short text description, but no map. There are links for points of interest, but they also only give me text descriptions.

I'm obviously missing something important.