Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ShadowHammer]

I have this friend who has recently written the first portion of his first book. I read the first half of this and thought it was amazing, so I told him thusly and he seemed pretty happy that I liked it. However, after reading the second part, I felt that it took a sharp downward turn as it got darker and edgier. I'm not sure how to tell him this. Further complicating the scenario are a few things: a) He told me about the impending darkness and edginess, said it wasn't how he expected it to go, but he wasn't disappointed with it; b) He has fairly low self-esteem, I think; c) Even the part I didn't like was still really well written; and d) I don't want my input to change the direction he's going with the book, because when other people do that with things I'm working on, I tend to dislike the end result and I think he might also.

My question is, what do I tell him? I want to be truthful about disliking it without discouraging him or influencing the book, but I'm not sure how.

[Arx]

Just tell him pretty much everything you've just said here, minus the part about self esteem. It seems like you have a well-founded opinion and a fairly solid understanding of the problems with it.

[LordBucket]

what do I tell him?

Former editor of published novels here.

Be direct. Be thorough. Explain yourself. Don't worry about emotions. Authors need information. When you hear your own voice, it sounds differently than the way it sounds on a recording. Writing is much like this. What you write isn't always exactly what other people read. So tell him what you read.

However, after reading the second part, I felt that it took a sharp downward turn as it got darker and edgier. I'm not sure how to tell him this.

Directly. But a transition to darker and edgier isn't necessarily a bad thing. It may even be intentional. If you feel it detracts from the story, so be it. Let him know. He'll decide what to do with that information. But not every story is intended for every audience. I don't usually like zombie movies, for example. But zombies movies are a thing, and some people like them. A transition to darker and edgier is also a thing, and it's a valid thing and some people like it. Whether you like a story is not the same as whether a story is well written.

If you don't like it, that's fine. Tell him you don't like it and tell him why. But remember that you might not be the target audience. You don't make a zombie story better by adding things you personally like to it. Making his story more to your liking might not make it better. That's for him to decide.

[Neonivek]

Here is how I do it

First you want to connect to what he is writing and try to understand the work and what they are going for.

Then talk to them about what you like about it.

Then you want to offer ways to make what they are going for, better.

The thing about Constructive Criticism is that it is by FAR overrated. "Do it better" is constructive Criticism but isn't helpful or kind. While even "destructive" Criticism can be helpful as well.

[Tawa]

The thing about Constructive Criticism is that it is by FAR overrated. "Do it better" is constructive Criticism but isn't helpful or kind. While even "destructive" Criticism can be helpful as well.

To be cliché, you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think that it means. Constructive criticism is helpful by definition, and destructive criticism is unhelpful by definition. Just "do it better" is really more destructive than constructive, since it doesn't say how it could be better and simply states the work is bad as-is.

To address the OP: Make sure he knows what the perceived quality difference between the first and second parts is and how the difference makes you feel. If he wants the second half to be darker and edgier, so be it. But make sure he knows how the change in tone changes the book.

Most certainly situational, but if it's applicable you might want to look at the two parts separately. If you think the second half would've looked better if the book was consistently dark and edgy instead of becoming edgy halfway through, tell him.

[ShadowHammer]

Hmmm... Well, thanks for all your advices, everyone. I ended up saying that it was excellent writing (because it was) despite my not being a fan of dark edginess (because I'm not), and I pointed out a couple things I liked about it (because they were good). I think it was reasonably constructive and fairly encouraging, but I'll let you guys know if he seems to take it some way I didn't intend. But yeah, y'all were really helpful; thanks for your time.

[Jo]

Gah!

Don't ever let anyone read a work until it's done.

Letting other voices control the progress of a story is writing by committee. I guess some like it that way, they want to have a group experience, but if you have any confidence issues at all letting another voice in before it's done can totally kill your progress.

I hope it turns out well. Good luck!

[i2amroy]

Gah!

Don't ever let anyone read a work until it's done.

Letting other voices control the progress of a story is writing by committee. I guess some like it that way, they want to have a group experience, but if you have any confidence issues at all letting another voice in before it's done can totally kill your progress.

I hope it turns out well. Good luck!

Eh, I think the best writing is that which is done by an author that is willing to stick to their guns, but that also listens to what other people say. I certainly know that I've had several times where people have read through what I've written and found phrases or paragraphs that don't just flow as well as they could have, or scenes that don't quite work for what I intend.

So not so much using others to write plot, or ideas, or characters and so forth, but more using them as editors to catch things that don't come across quite as the author intends.

[nenjin]

I just try to stay respectful of authorial intent. You're not trying to rewrite their work, just improve what's already there. Going "no that doesn't work" doesn't bring them on board with your proposals.

[penguinofhonor]

Getting other people to read your work is crucial for any kind of writing you plan on making public. You probably have the most biased perspective of your own work possible - it is very difficult to ignore your intent and see what you've written as if you've never read it before. If you've written something that's easy to misinterpret, you probably won't misinterpret it because you know the meaning you're trying to impart, you know the intentions behind any actions that are happening, and you know their outcomes.

[Neonivek]

I just try to stay respectful of authorial intent. You're not trying to rewrite their work, just improve what's already there. Going "no that doesn't work" doesn't bring them on board with your proposals.

Well there are ways to tell people to cut things out as far as not working.

I often, when criticizing other peoples work, tell them if what they wrote is too wordy or if a word they used is too difficult to say.