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[Kot]

Yes, what is a FG40?

Oh.
OOOH.
OOH FUCK, DAMN.
I fucked up so hard, sorry.
For some reason I kept mistaking the LG 40 for FG 40 in this thread. No idea why, tho (maybe because of FG 42).
Anyway, the thing I had in mind is recoiless gun (which shouldn't really use AP or even APHE due to low muzzle velocity) but apparently there are sources stating it does (even If I can't find actual penetration of it, while getting penetration values of HEAT is easy) and we got into an argument in a arms design game few subforums below on wether the recoiless gun could actually use APHE effectively or not.

[Erkki]

APHE could be more effective than HEAT against thinly armored vehicles. Thats one super slow muzzle velocity even for WW2 era. Actually, its almost Ho-301 bad, like a grenade launcher basically. If the listed 350 m/s is for HE, its likely even lower for the dual purpose APHE...

[Kot]

APHE could be more effective than HEAT against thinly armored vehicles. Thats one super slow muzzle velocity even for WW2 era. Actually, its almost Ho-301 bad, like a grenade launcher basically. If the listed 350 m/s is for HE, its likely even lower for the dual purpose APHE...

This was our whole problem in the design game, the GM made recoiless gun effective against medium tanks despite using APHE and I do realize that it would be shit, the GM just brought up sources that indicate the LG 40 had AP rounds and used this as an argument for it.

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Kot]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You do realize that this is exactly what Russians did, like, 100% accurate. At first they didin't actually think of it like that, but IIRC, they made some research using dead pigs to check how useful is that.

[Defacto]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

They say that it is important to support your armor in battle with infantry, but I didn't think they meant it like that.

[Erkki]

Both Ukraine and Russia still do that... Or at least it seems to be common for infantry to ride tanks even when there may be enemy contact.

[Sheb]

I think "Infantry protection" means "Have footsoldiers keep an eye open far anyone feeling heroic with a Panzerfaust", not "armor your tank with meat".

[Lord Shonus]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You do realize that this is exactly what Russians did, like, 100% accurate. At first they didin't actually think of it like that, but IIRC, they made some research using dead pigs to check how useful is that.

As far as I'm aware, the Red Army never deliberately decided "let's tell our infantry to ride on the tanks so they can protect the tanks from those bazooka clones* the Germans are shooting at us", but encouraged (officially or unofficially) the practice of tank-riding because it got more men to the fight faster and in better fighting condition than any other method.  When infantry showed promise at deflecting rocket fire (as in, tanks took less damage if the rocket hit an infantryman first) experiments were conducted to determine how well this protected and how it protected - with the aim of developing better armor for the next tank or possibly applique armor for existing ones.


*The Panzerschreck was a direct scaled-up copy of the American M2 Bazooka rocket, developed after such rockets provided to the Soviets via Lend Lease were captured and tests showed the weapon to be promising, but insufficiently powerful to take on Soviet armor (although it worked just fine against German armor), a judgment that would be proven in the Korean War where North Korean T-34-85s proved almost immune to the weapon.

[Kot]

As far as I'm aware, the Red Army never deliberately decided "let's tell our infantry to ride on the tanks so they can protect the tanks from those bazooka clones* the Germans are shooting at us", but encouraged (officially or unofficially) the practice of tank-riding because it got more men to the fight faster and in better fighting condition than any other method.  When infantry showed promise at deflecting rocket fire (as in, tanks took less damage if the rocket hit an infantryman first) experiments were conducted to determine how well this protected and how it protected - with the aim of developing better armor for the next tank or possibly applique armor for existing ones.

Indeed, but they still noticed it enough to do those tests with pigs.
EDIT:
By the way, Zhukov said that the best way to remove minefields is to send a penal batallion through, so, you know...