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[Il Palazzo]

Strategic Bombing was almost unquestionably the single most important military cause of Germany's defeat

Come on now.

[Loud Whispers]

I remember writing a research paper a couple years ago for a basic history class in uni, about the effect strategic bombing had in WWII. I argued that the strategic bombing of Germany and Japan had done little to shorten the war (or rather very little compared to what commanders thought at the time) with a minor exception for the effect it had on German oil, and that it was more or less a waste of material and civilian lives. Since this thread's on the topic of aircraft, I'm kind of curious what you guys think about it.

Useful in also wasting the enemy's materiel and manpower. Just look at the dambusters raid, sure the Germans fixed the damage with the efficiency of army ants but by the time they did mines were flooded, factories destroyed, roads and railways destroyed and great fields of arable land rendered useless. In addition, it was certainly quite the morale boost for the beleaguered islanders.

Strategic Bombing was almost unquestionably the single most important military cause of Germany's defeat

Come on now.

It would be both amusing and terrifying to see the red army being dropped from bombers in the millions

[Lord Shonus]

Strategic Bombing was almost unquestionably the single most important military cause of Germany's defeat

Come on now.

It would be both amusing and terrifying to see the red army being dropped from bombers in the millions

A key point in the Red Army's victories was that the Germans simply couldn't keep the supplies going at critical junctures of the war, allowing German units to be pocketed and annihilated instead of retreating and remaining a viable threat. THe lack of supplies, particularly after mid-1943, was due to so much getting destroyed in the factories and so much more being expended to try to save the factories. Not to mention the increasingly poor quality of German armor plate (which I didn't include in the Tiger and Panther's faults because it wasn't really a design flaw) that led to vehicles dying to shots they should have been able to keep out. Logistics win wars, and the entire German logistic train was blown up from the air.

[Dorsidwarf]

It would be both amusing and terrifying to see the red army being dropped from bombers in the millions

-Comrade-General Ivankovich visits a paratrooper training camp, England-

"Szo Comrade-briton, you are droppink ze men out of planes high up and fast, then zhey are using the silk parachutes to land with safe?"

"That seems about right guv'nor."

"And these are your elite soldiers?"

"That seems about right guv'nor."

-Moscow-

"Comrades! I have great idea! For to make all our soldiers like ze best of ze westerners! We szall make dem all paratroopers!"

"But comrade-general, our troops planes are slow and parachutes are expensive! We cannot afford them!"

"De two problems solve each uzzer, comrade"

[Il Palazzo]

@Lord Shonus:
So you think, if not for the strategic bombing, Germany would have won the war?

[Lord Shonus]

@Lord Shonus:
So you think, if not for the strategic bombing, Germany would have won the war?

I said that it was "the most important military factor", not the only factor. After BARBAROSSA failed, the absolute best Germany could hope for was Status Quo Ante Bellum if the Allies got tied of fighting, and the way WWI turned out made that unlikely. Without the strategic bombing campaign, the war WOULD have lasted considerably longer, cost millions more lives, and might have resulted in Nazi Germany continuing to exist in some truncated form if the counterattacks were costly enough.

[Il Palazzo]

Without the strategic bombing campaign, the war WOULD have lasted considerably longer, cost millions more lives, and might have resulted in Nazi Germany continuing to exist in some truncated form if the counterattacks were costly enough.

So, what you're actually saying, is that the strategic bombing accelerated the German defeat?
Can you see how that's different from your original statement?

[Kot]

russian bomber paratroops

Actually Russians were second third to create airborne troops, IIRC, after Italy and Peru.

[Lord Shonus]

Without the strategic bombing campaign, the war WOULD have lasted considerably longer, cost millions more lives, and might have resulted in Nazi Germany continuing to exist in some truncated form if the counterattacks were costly enough.

So, what you're actually saying, is that the strategic bombing accelerated the German defeat?
Can you see how that's different from your original statement?

There is no difference. No military factor played a greater role in making the war turn out with the annihilation of the Third Reich in 1945 than the Anglo-American strategic bombing campaign.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

I wonder what would have happened if America had dropped a nuke on Germany instead of Japan?

[Loud Whispers]

I wonder what would have happened if America had dropped a nuke on Germany instead of Japan?

USSR sweeps through continental Yurop, red army develops an affinity for radiation, blowout soon STALKER

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Cheeky Breeky

[Il Palazzo]

There is no difference. No military factor played a greater role in making the war turn out with the annihilation of the Third Reich in 1945 than the Anglo-American strategic bombing campaign.

So, what you're actually actually saying, is that if not for the strategic bombing, Germany wouldn't be overrun, but would manage to sue for a conditional peace?
That's still a different message than the original one.

And you're basing it on what, exactly?

[Loud Whispers]

So, what you're actually actually saying, is that if not for the strategic bombing, Germany wouldn't be overrun, but would manage to sue for a conditional peace?
That's still a different message than the original one.
And you're basing it on what, exactly?

People are allowed to say more than one message, banterous conversation is not a contest of who is most consistent (even if it helps to be consistent)

[Il Palazzo]

Nah, you're right. I might have had unreasonable expectations about the thread.
You carry on. I think I'll occupy myself elsewhere. Somebody shoot me a PM should the thread go downhill and need an emergency closing (hopefully not due to Hitler references).