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Yes.

4 (66.7%)

No.

1 (16.7%)

Yes, but. . . (comment how, below)

1 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Voting closed: August 31, 2016, 04:23:26 pm

[AoshimaMichio]

Next logical question is why not use cloned human souls? I mean, besides various ethical and moral issues that Akras seems to ignore anyway.

[~Neri]

It's far easier to deal with nonsapients than it is to deal with sapients.

A sapient could resist with a reasonable chance at escaping for about ten seconds before it gets shot. A nonsapient is far easier to manage. Akras Has used cloned humans before though. Hell. Half the interns and the majority of killsquads are clones.

[TheBiggerFish]

It wouldn't actually have a quality vessel and would prevent a quality soul from forming.

That and a brain needs an external basis to hallucinate anything quality in the first place. Can't hallucinate that you don't have hands if you never had hands in the first place after all.

Uh...No...It doesn't really?  The core bits of the brain are hardcoded...

[somemildmanneredidiot]

The answer I'm seeing is moral and PR reasons. Which may be overcome soon enough anyway. I'm looking into kill boxes of ants which might end up providing a better mass/soul ratio.

[~Neri]

It wouldn't actually have a quality vessel and would prevent a quality soul from forming.

That and a brain needs an external basis to hallucinate anything quality in the first place. Can't hallucinate that you don't have hands if you never had hands in the first place after all.

Uh...No...It doesn't really?  The core bits of the brain are hardcoded...

Actually yes. The brain needs the external stimuli in the first place to develop those bits. This is something that has been proven scientifically.

However in this case. It's the vessel itself that matters. Not the brain. If the vessel is low quality, the soul can't get any further than low quality.

The answer I'm seeing is moral and PR reasons. Which may be overcome soon enough anyway. I'm looking into kill boxes of ants which might end up providing a better mass/soul ratio.

It's more of a "How much of a pain is it to do x?" thing.

[KaineFisher]

Non-queen ants are basically extensions of the queen, so that probably wouldn't be worth much.

[Kuma]

What if you hook the brain up to a vr machine and have it experience a life through that? Would it still be low quality because it's a low quality vessel?

[somemildmanneredidiot]

Non-queen ants are basically extensions of the queen, so that probably wouldn't be worth much.

I'm given to understand that isn't the case and that the queen better represents the womb of an ant hill rather than the brain/womb. I don't have any resources off hand to support such claims and only remember that there were people, more educated on the topic than I, discussing it on a social media thing. I'll see what I can dig up though.

What if you hook the brain up to a vr machine and have it experience a life through that? Would it still be low quality because it's a low quality vessel?

I can confirm the latter question as a yes, but the effects of the previous are a bit less known to me.

[KaineFisher]

Hooking brain into VR actually sounds promising. It worked for Sundowner and Desperado in Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance. Well it would have if they hadn't been stopped.

[~Neri]

Hooking a brain into VR would Sorta work but it would run into the same problems that cyborgs have. Namely a lack of Life and a lack of Quality Vessel as far as the soul is concerned. You'd certainly get Quality of Mind, Quantity of Mind, Quality of Memory, Quantity of Memory, and so on. But you'd have no Quality Vessel, Life, or Energy. Overall a VRed brain would be more effective than just a brain in a jar tripping balls but it would be worse than a monkey in a cage. And a monkey in a cage would be worse than a monkey in a zoo enclosure.

[Kuma]

Would it be too much trouble to try VRed monkeys? Then it would have a quality mind and vessel and would be better than the monkey in the Zoo since you could give it better experiences.

[Hawk132]

Spoiler: Updated Jon's sheet out of boredom. (click to show/hide)

Name: Jonathan Cross

Str: 20 (x2 from augments, real value 10)
Dex: 18 (x2 from augments, real value 9)
Con: 18 (x2 from augments, real value 9)
Int: 15

Hp: 15 (not sure if this should be increased due to the augments, but if it should - it's 25)
Per: 15
Will: 15
Vig: 9 (not sure if this should be increased due to the augments, but if it should - it's 18)

Skills:

- Medical:
   - First Aid: 6 - INT/E
   - Diagnosis: 6 - INT/H
   - Surgery: 6 - INT/VH

- Range Weapons:
   - Small Arms: 2 - DEX/E
   - Medium Arms: 3 - DEX/A
   - Heavy Arms: 2 - DEX/H

- Melee Weapons:
   - Knives: 3 - DEX/E

- Driving:
   - Automobile: 2 - DEX/A (from racial bonus, Jon's 29.)
   - Motorcycle: 1 - DEX/A (also racial bonus)

- Unarmed:
   - Brawling: 3 - DEX/E (+1 from racial bonus)

- Electronics Operation 1 (racial bonus, the doc doesn't specify what kind of electronics operation it is)

- Social:
   - Oratory: 1 - INT/A
   - Coercion: 1  - WIL/A
   - Persuasion: 1 - INT/H (all from racial bonus)

Equipment:

- Modular Full-body Augments
   - Cybernetic Eyes
   - Right Arm - Missile Launcher
       - Right Hand - Built-in Surgery Kit + Laser Scalpel/Pistol
   - Left Arm - Repulsor Beam
       - Left Hand - Built-in Surgery Kit + Tesla Arc Thrower
   - Lower Body Mk.II (-50*)
- 20mm Vulcan Cannon
   - Ammunition Backpack (with an unspecified amount of rounds)
- .45 Kreuweizer Tactical Pistol
   - 2 spare mags (.45 AP)
   - 2 spare mags (.45 HX)
- Iron Ritual Dagger
- Copy of Eldritch Tome
- G-1 Offensive Grenade
- Assault Suit
   - D001 Trauma Plates
- Agent Helm
- Advanced Surgery Kit
- 4x First Aid Kit

Current XP: 0
Current Personal Funds: 25*
Total on purchases: -50* out of squad funds

[somemildmanneredidiot]

Things I've learned about Ants.

Depending on the species, Queens can live for up to 30 years. Non-fertile females live for 1 to 3 years. The castes we generally associate with ants are actually age based with the riskier jobs going to the older ants as they are likely to die soon anyway.

Would it be too much trouble to try VRed monkeys? Then it would have a quality mind and vessel and would be better than the monkey in the Zoo since you could give it better experiences.

+1 to Sciencing this.

[KaineFisher]

VR training on brains could work for making cyborg soldiers, which was Desperado's plan.

Here's the idea: https://youtu.be/r0NczjdvBso?t=8m41s

[~Neri]

You could try VRed monkeys. A VRed monkey would Not have a Quality Vessel unless it actually has a body. IE: You'd get more out of plugging a whole monkey into a VR than you would from plugging a brain in.