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Yes.

4 (66.7%)

No.

1 (16.7%)

Yes, but. . . (comment how, below)

1 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Voting closed: August 31, 2016, 04:23:26 pm

[Maegil]

The catalogue would be better off in a wikia. See the ER armoury, for instance.

[~Neri]

Perhaps. I still want the catalog fleshed out for the raw data first.

[Maegil]

BTW, the TVtropes link should go to the OP. I did add something to it but lost sight of the link; more people would be able to add to it if it was more accessible.

[~Neri]

Probably. There have been like two or three attempts now to set up a TV Tropes if I recall.

[Insanegame27]

Nope. Just one, by me. Here it is. I started the main page for it and a character page for it, both of which I posted.
Bay 12 Castle Foxhound Squad (Roleplay) - TV Tropes

[KaineFisher]

I'm going to be part of a TV Tropes page? I AM SO HAPPY!

[Insanegame27]

ALTERNATIVELY, restat the SMG to a .45 ACP (11.43x23mm), which tears unarmored targets a new asshole closerange, minor bruising (if that) at longer range. I have suggested in the doc to turn the SMG into a .45 ACP, and lowering the magazine size to 25 as opposed to 45.

If larger calibre was better, we'd still be at .75 caliber flintlock muskets.

The .45 may have been great in cowboy and gangster times but it's pretty obsolete in anything with full auto; it's more of a mark of the Americans' unholy love affair with it and of their industrial base more than for real merits. Note that for everyone else, on both sides of the iron curtain, the 9×19mm was considered good enough and eventually overkill.
More recently even, the FN P90's 5.7×28mm has greater range, accuracy, and terminal performance than the older 9×19mm standard and is capable of penetrating body armor.

A retired Airfield Defense Guard (Classified as counter-special-forces) told me that a P90 is fantastic at point-blank, but terrible at range. To paraphrase: "If you shot me in the head point-blank with something like the FN P90, I'd be dead. If you shot me at three-hundred meters with the same gun, I'd have a small bruise on my forehead."
Same goes for the 9x19mm, although good luck hitting anything over 50 meters. The 9mm is actually greater calibre than the 7.62 of something like the AK47, however, the AK works at range because of the smaller calibre and higher power cartridge. The 9mm isn't even much of a step-down from the .45. It's 9mm compared to 11.43mm in calibre and 19mm compared to 23mm in cartridge.
As a general rule, the higher the calibre, the faster it bleeds off energy; the longer the cartridge, the farther it will fly; the combination of the round's speed at time of impact and calibre is the damage done. Hence why long range .50 cal rounds have such a long cartridge, because they need the power to give them range.
The energy of a bullet is given by F=ma. The mass of a NATO 9x19mm para round between 7.5 and 9.5 grams. The mass of a typical .45 round is 12-15 grams. Assuming high-end on both [low-end will be done in sq brackets], 9.5g and 15g, both have a muzzle velocity of 300 m/s [7.5g 9mm 410m/s; 12g .45 373m/s]. Just looking at these we know the .45 is gonna fuck you up worse at point blank.
 9mm Force in Newtons = 0.0095kg x -300 (300 m/s/s deceleration as it hits your skull and presumably stops) = 2.85 Newtons of force concentrated in the point of the bullet.
 .45 Force in Newtons = 0.0150 x -300 = (you're not gonna believe this) = 4.5 Newtons. That is nearly double point-blank force for a mere 2.43mm more diameter and 4mm longer cartridge.
I can't be arsed to find out the velocities of the bullets at range, but a .45 bleeds the speed off a lot quicker and 9mm is more effective than .45 over range.


A 4.43x33mm round has no place in the 25th century, or even today. If you have an assault rifle which kills for 700 meters (pulled out of my ass here, it's 1:00) vs an assault rifle which kills for 1300 meters but doesn't guarantee a kill with each like the former could, then there's no competition. If you're only expecting to fight within 500 meters then there is absolutely zero reason to take the latter of the ass-pulled imaginary hypothetical rifles.

[Maegil]

You may not have noticed that I specified that the .45 is "obsolete in anything with full auto", but still you gave the reason yourself: except on point blank range the recoil will make it shoot all over the place, and at that range a smaller bullet will also do the job. Anyway, while a .45 round contains enough kinetic energy to over-penetrate, a high speed small calibre round can pierce vests but tumbles inside the body, causing damage beyond what you'd get from a through wound.

In fact, it's a matter of horses for courses:
- When it comes to longer ranges, for much of the 20th century the standard was at about 7.6~8mm due to cost-benefit - the professionals in the many armies all realized that anything bigger was unnecessary (for instance, the Japanese experimented in reducing their rifle round from 8×52mm to 6.5×50mm before settling for 7.7×58mm). When the Germans came up with the StG44 they kept the same calibre of the 98k but reduced it to intermediate power (7.92×57mm to 7.92×33mm), as it was specifically designed for automatic fire and shorter range engagements than the WWI trenches. Nowadays, most applications of these high-powered cartridges is in long range sniping, as even LMGs are reducing their ammo sizes.
- With refinements and new technology, intermediate power small-calibre, high-velocity rounds increasingly became the norm with the introduction of the M16 (5.56×45mm) and the AK-74 (5.45×39mm).
- Regarding SMGs, or that fancy newfangled name of PDW, if you're fighting with them at 300m you're doing it wrong, as they're meant for short range engagements (police, close quarters environments, and special operations, or as bailout weapons for crews) and the 5.7×28mm maximum range is about 400m.

Where does this leave the .45? IMHO, as a macho "look at my size" gun (but I do agree that 4.43x33mm it taking it too far).

[somemildmanneredidiot]

If larger calibre was better, we'd still be at .75 caliber flintlock muskets.

I mean, we technically still do. Not the flintlocks, but the caliber. .75 caliber is roughly 20mm, which is what we use in some artillery guns/tank guns/plane guns. The primary difference between then and now in regards to caliber is that we have better chemical explosives and therefore can do a lot more with a lot less, making 20mm more of use in Mission Killing Vehicles or delivering explosives to a target.

And as it is. Akras is beginning the transition to much more accurate and devastating lasers. Not to mention Gauss.

That reminds me, I remember reading somewhere that Aperture Science, or at least a moon based company by the name of Aperture, exists. Has Akras invested any research into Portal-like technology and how is their progress on creating pocket dimensions? I had a thought or two on how to make a Bag of Holding possible from a Sci-Fi point of view.

[vkiNm]

And as it is. Akras is beginning the transition to much more accurate and devastating lasers. Not to mention Gauss.

That reminds me, I remember reading somewhere that Aperture Science, or at least a moon based company by the name of Aperture, exists. Has Akras invested any research into Portal-like technology and how is their progress on creating pocket dimensions? I had a thought or two on how to make a Bag of Holding possible from a Sci-Fi point of view.

Akras have not been focusing on Portal-like technology nor the magics in creating pocket dimensions. They're looking at Mass/Matter Compression, though.

Aperture's Portal gun exists, but is not commercialized or in public knowledge, they're still testing the thing intensively using state-of-the-art Pseudo-AIs.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

Makes sense, though now I'm wondering if any Gate teams will be used for corporate espionage purposes. I remember something about there being 14 other Gates that are held by Not-Akras, so infiltrating through an open Gate would be both risky as all get out and hilarious to see the look on their faces. At least before the bullets start flying.

[LordPorkins]

Wait, if theres 14 other gates, doesnt the public know about  them?

[vkiNm]

14? I remember only saying that there's Akras's, and maybe the Russian have them, but I've never mentioned about any other gates that's not Akras's.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

He is Fernan, the CO-CEO of Akras CO, one of the 15 companies around the world who 'own' a 'Gate'. Its not know for sure if all the companies really own these strange, and usually massive, devices, or the Countries still rich enough to sponsor them, but, what is known is that these Gates are what they are called. They are entryways to other worlds. Maybe even other dimensions.

[vkiNm]

Huh. Well that was when Zomara was still running the game, I have since taken over and decided that that many gates just brings a whole lot of trouble for no good reason and isn't compelling from a story standpoint.

I mean, if I'm planning to make way more threads for other companies? Sure! Maybe. But from a writer's standpoint? It's not feasible to have that many exists.

There's probably more than Akras's, likely at least one more in Russia, but the point of gates is to be this ultra-rare passageway to another world where you go in and exploit it.

Gate Teams are a lot less badass when there's 14 other companies doing it also. Plus that upsets the 'balance' too hard, the world as a whole will jump in tech wildly and your super awesome high-tech shoot-the-sun-at-enemies Laser rifle won't feel as awesome when everyone else has one too.