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[WealthyRadish]

When dealing with someone who tries to give advice this way, I have to turn off my emotions and think about what they're saying, because sometimes it's actually good advice, and they don't know how to not be rude.

This is what I'd say is the best way of dealing with angry fellow gamers online, by seriously considering what they're saying and then responding neutrally or kindly (reciprocating the hostility is what they expect and on some level want, but it's completely pointless). That or just ignore them, in most games there are built in or hackish ways of getting rid of chat entirely.

[Kruniac]

So a long long time ago in the ages of old there were games that while praised for their story telling and gameplay were bashed because you needed to read a guide in order to play.

Yet now we are in a new age a different age where guides are not only common but for a lot of games they outright expect you to read them, to know the metagame in and out, and for there to be absolutely no surprises or else you will pretty much be shamed out of the community.

I have always been a "I'll read the instructions" sort of person but I've always stood that I should be able to play a game by myself and be decent at it. Sure it might take you to understand

But MOBAs, Roguelikes, and now even card games (mostly because of super limited resources against a world of people with infinite resources) all now depend highly on this meta knowledge.

How far are you willing to go to enjoy a game?

1: Those games of yesteryear were called "Good games". Complex, involved, difficult, and good.

2: From there on it turns into "Someone called me a noob and/or slurs and I quit DOTA/HOTS/LOL". Stopped reading.

Learn to play.

[Neonivek]

The thing I even brought up right on the original topic that a game that you had to learn to play through outside sources or by a step by step guide were considered flawed.

Where nowadays a game where you need those things are considered BETTER for it.

--

Don't get me wrong, I miss how smart a lot of old games where and realize that games nowadays are rock stupid by comparison.

Lands of Lore is a insanely difficult game that requires you to not only be good at the game's mechanics but at thinking outside the box and within the box as well.

I can overlook its flaws (and trust me it has flaws) simply because even Dark Souls doesn't come close to touching it (HECK... I might even say it is harder then Dark Souls)

[Shadowlord]

Where nowadays a game where you need [an external guide] are considered BETTER for it.

sez who?

There are plenty of games which you can shut your brain off to play, ignore all the text and words and speech, and just blindly charge forward shooting everything that moves, knowing that the game will lead you inexorably towards the end, and if you run into a dead end or secret area it will almost always have loot. And if the developers try to fuck with you by throwing in a maze, you can almost always just use the right hand rule or left hand rule (pick a side at the entrance and follow that wall until you reach the exit)

If they made a maze which that doesn't work in, and you still don't want to think, map, or look up how to get through it, you can always just use the random mouse algorithm: at every junction, pick a random direction, until you find the exit. (I did that in The Summoning (from SSI, in the 90s), which has a few teleport mazes where the teleporters have two possible destinations and alternate between them when something goes through them, because it was easier (and hilariously, quicker) than trying to figure out and record where both destinations of each teleporter went.)

[Neonivek]

La Mulana is considered a good game in spite it being terribly designed for example

[kilakan]

La mulana is terribly designed?  I've not really had any problems with it.... feels fairly intuitive as far as I can tell?  Maybe it just uses mechanics that are not longer the norm so it's considered a bad design.

[Neonivek]

La mulana is terribly designed?  I've not really had any problems with it.... feels fairly intuitive as far as I can tell?  Maybe it just uses mechanics that are not longer the norm so it's considered a bad design.

And have you beat the game on your own, without a guide?

[kilakan]

yes.  But you are also aware I've beat myst without a guide and other 'wow this game is impossible' games without guides so... yeah.

I also like the water temple in zelda ocarina of time.  So suck it.

[FallacyofUrist]

The water temple? Eye twitch, Shivversss...

That thing is something I never want to enter again. It literally was the only thing stopping me from beating the game. For over a year. Or at least a very large number of months.

[Neonivek]

yes.  But you are also aware I've beat myst without a guide and other 'wow this game is impossible' games without guides so... yeah.

I also like the water temple in zelda ocarina of time.  So suck it.

Myst was possible, the puzzles were laid out in front of you and you didn't have to handle mechanics that aren't even part of the game. La Mulana after watching a "How you are supposed to solve these puzzles" guide... Yeah it is kind of a BSy game... (about two puzzles are outright unfair)

La Mulana is like Myst if it was also Milon's Secret Castle

When I found the sheer number of puzzles I solved but "didn't solve" because I didn't know when it say "Left statue" it meant "to the right of the statue a little to an invisible pedestal that I have to have a weight for".

Here is kind of the difference between Myst... You see a puzzle infront of you, and you know the solution, so you input the solution into the puzzle and you win.

La Mulana you see a puzzle, you know the solution, now you have to find the way the puzzle needs to be inputted ASSUMING it is even possible because another part of the puzzle could be hidden in a completely separate part of the dungeon OR it could be a fake puzzle... Of which the location of the way to solve the puzzle can be hidden even if you are given the exact instructions on where to find it.

It is why I don't give credit to La Mulana for being difficult... because the vast majority of its difficulty is from being cheap, not difficult.

Myst is difficult, Gabriel Knight is difficult, 11th hour is difficult, but La Mulana is cheap.

Heck I know this so much to be the case... that I bet you had to brute force a few of the solutions. Which is a gaming sin. Mind you... some of the puzzle solutions outright require you to do so.

[Shadowlord]

Is 11th hour the game with the haunted house? The name sounds familiar. I tried playing something like that back in the windows 3.1 days, but never got past the initial rooms - not because of a puzzle I couldn't figure out, but because IIRC there weren't any doors or anything going anywhere.

I could be confused, of course.

[Neonivek]

Is 11th hour the game with the haunted house? The name sounds familiar. I tried playing something like that back in the windows 3.1 days, but never got past the initial rooms - not because of a puzzle I couldn't figure out, but because IIRC there weren't any doors or anything going anywhere.

I could be confused, of course.

11th hour is the sequel "But not really" of 7th Guest...

And dear goodness are its puzzles insanely difficult. But they are all based off of ciphers anyhow.