Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[notquitethere]

Tawa

If nothing else happens, then you, probably. Because you have done absolutely nothing to help us, just made a bunch of bullshit claims about your own role.

This doesn't seem like a very well substantiated view given that I've done more in this game outside of those claims than over half the other players.

His entire reasoning for not being lynched is "because he's town" and enigmatically stating that "there's better lynch candidates" without saying who and he doesn't think that town players should have any fear at all of being killed.

It's not that enigmatic, I then detailed in the very next post some better lynch candidates. Good town play has a certain degree of self-preservation, but unless you're role is worth more to the town than other town players you should be prepared to take a hit for the team if it means saving a [cop/doctor/etc]. Not sure how this view makes me anti-town.


Fallacy

All of a sudden mafia-ally seems like his alignment.

Yeah I can see why you'd think that. If I as a mafia-ally then I'd probably be trying harder to lynch a player I thought was probably town.

Don't quote Vader. But on a more serious note, Who would you say to be a better lynch candidate today, and for what reasons?

4mask joke claimed 3rd party which is a good bluff if he's not town, also he's not done anything useful with his time.

If you had three alignment-inspects and a role-inspect, who would you use them on?

I'd role inspect Jack to see what his game is with his claims. Guess I'd alignment inspect him while I'm at it. I'd alignment inspect 4mask and Tiruin as I've played with them two a lot and I've got residual mistrust to overcome.


Tiruin

Alright, caught up
[snip]

That's quite a broad list. Who are you looking to lynch at the end of today?


Tawa

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

NQT is trying to seem suspicious. This isn't because he's a jester, the idea he put forth. It's because he wants us to think he's a jester. If we know he's a jester, we won't lynch him, because it would be a waste of our time and resources. But he's actually a mafioso, and he's using the idea that we think he's a jester as a shield against being lynched. But he made the slip-up that he seemed way too scummy, right off the bat; if he was serious about his jester role, he wouldn't have thrown so much WIFOM in our faces at the very start and sending at least two players' scum-o-meters way off the charts before the first day was even half over.

I never said I was a jester, I said I wanted to be a jester, it's a crucial difference. I'm not trying to get lynched. I can see why you might have this theory, but the fact is, it's false.

-Jester Gambit theory already posited. Looking for alternative theories as we speak, best other one I can think of is the strangest attempt ever to kick off scumhunting.

You're starting to catch on! My technique is a bit like poking a nest of rattlesnakes and seeing what comes out.

[FallacyofUrist]

... are you going to answer my questions?

Hm. Yeah, some posting from 4maskwolf and Jack would be nice.

Good town play has a certain degree of self-preservation, but unless you're role is worth more to the town than other town players you should be prepared to take a hit for the team if it means saving a [cop/doctor/etc]. Not sure how this view makes me anti-town.

There's the issue. NQT, do you think your role is better or worse for the town than average?(alternatively, more powerful for town or less?) Because in this game, the roles are a tad bit crazy, as you know. Do you think you have a way of determining your role's relative power?

You're starting to catch on! My technique is a bit like poking a nest of rattlesnakes and seeing what comes out.

Quick, someone examine the last game in which NQT played to see if he dropped this much WIFOM! I might just do that myself.

[Deus Asmoth]

FoU: He did. The link to it is in my last post.

So let's throw out a few more questions.
Everybody:
Do you believe Jack's claim? (I have no reason to doubt it, but no proof in his favor either, I'll need to wait until tomorrow for results and whatnot)
Why do you think NQT dropped the WIFOM bomb in the first place? (I still think he's some villain of some sort who dropped it to cause confusion)
Who do you think are the top 3 most productive scum hunters? (I may be slightly biased in my favor here, but: [flabort, FoU, and Tawarochir].)

Jack's claim is vague enough that there's no point in not believing it. It could mean a night kill, an inspect with a public release clause or even something as outlandish as forcing everyone to target NQT with something, so he'd infect everyone. We'll know whether he was telling the truth if he does target NQT tonight I guess, but there's not a whole lot of point in dwelling on it till then.

NQT's WIFOM could be for any number of reasons. This early, I'd hazard that it was at least partially to kick off discussion. Speculation on other reasons is just going deeper into the wine.

The top three scumhunters by volume would be you, flabort and Tawa at the moment, I think.

NQT, did you consider that poking a rattlesnake nest is, in fact, a terrible idea?

[Jack A T]

I am town.

Everyone: Taking what you know about me and what you know about NQT into account, do you support my decision to carry out my test?  Explain your answer.  This will not change my plan for tonight.

Jack: What made you style your first post like NQT's? Is it the way he acted? Or was it of your own initiative [totally not affected by NQT]?

Tiruin: Writing it in the style of NQT's claims allowed me to get attention while ensuring a strong link between his claims and mine in debate.  Also, it was fun.

If its hypothetically 'now', NQT; Jack; DA.
Due to how I analyze their attitudes in respect to how they play the game.

Please clarify.

Fallacy:

Spoiler: Fallacy (click to show/hide)

Everybody: Is it normal to have to wade through this much WIFOM in order to scumhunt? (Or SK hunt, or Cult hunt, or whatnot.)

Not this much, normally, but certainly some.

NQT: I am really looking forward to Jack inspecting you, if he wasn't lying. Hopefully that will shed some light on the matter.

Why blurt this out all of a sudden?  Also, interesting to see you think it's an inspect.  Flabort thought kill.  NQT thought kill.  Why do you think my action is an inspect?

Everybody: Would we be better off without NQT here? Answering no will likely earn you my suspicion if you don't use good reasoning.

I refuse to answer this for now, on the basis that it would interfere with what I'm doing with my claim.
Define good reasoning.

Quick, someone examine the last game in which NQT played to see if he dropped this much WIFOM! I might just do that myself.

Last game (BYOR 14), he was a town-jester hybrid who failed at jestering.  He tried to get lynched by telling everyone to vote someone and refusing to give reasons.  I mostly saw through it, and then I shot him because he clearly had something up his sleeve (I was scum).

Flabort:

Spoiler: Flabort (click to show/hide)

Why the fishing so early? I call your claiming fishing because I almost told you about my role in response to some of those claims.
[...]
This is also why I called NQT's claims fishing, too. It got you to admit you have an investigative night power - or at least a night power of some sort, it may be a kill instead given claim 2.

Please clarify.  Do you call them fishing because of the result you see (my admission, your near-admission), because you think he should have foreseen this result, or because you think he was deliberately trying to get the result?  If one of the latter two, please explain why you think so.

As for your RVS questions, you handed out the three "same question(s)" questions to get multiple perspectives on the questions asked.  Also, to fill a list because you like full RVS question sets, even when RVS has been largely evaded.

since I probably have to pick someone who isn't NQT, I'd choose... *groan* Jack A T. His response to NQT's response to his claim is baffling; who wouldn't come to that conclusion after reading JackClaim2; especially the person being threatened? Yes, I headed there too, thinking he was claiming a kill, when I read that claim. And claiming to mimic NQT was suspicious too.

Interesting.  You see a kill too.  Always fascinating to watch what people guess my action is.

Now, I understand you want a response to this.  There really isn't much to respond to, though.  You skipped a key step: connecting your observations to your conclusion.  What makes scum more likely to take both actions noted than town?  What makes them suspicious?

Anyway, you seem awfully reluctant to suspect me, what with the groan and all.  Why?

Everyone: What do you think about Jack's and NQT's claims?

It is terrifying.

Everyone: Who is most suspicious right now? (I'd say NQT, but the other players might have different opinions.)

Dunno.  I'm not going to give you ideas.

4maskwolf: Any reason you're ducking away from serious questions?  Any good reason?

[Tawa]

This doesn't seem like a very well substantiated view given that I've done more in this game outside of those claims than over half the other players.

...such as?

Good town play has a certain degree of self-preservation, but unless you're role is worth more to the town than other town players you should be prepared to take a hit for the team if it means saving a [cop/doctor/etc]. Not sure how this view makes me anti-town.

The view alone doesn't make you anti-town; additionally, you do realize this is BYOR, right? There aren't any vanilla townies, and everybody has a role that's potentially highly useful. Your reasoning only applies to vanilla townies.

You're starting to catch on! My technique is a bit like poking a nest of rattlesnakes and seeing what comes out.

...That doesn't sound like a very good technique.

Everyone: Taking what you know about me and what you know about NQT into account, do you support my decision to carry out my test?  Explain your answer.  This will not change my plan for tonight.

Yes, yes I do.

[Jack A T]

Yes, yes I do.

Tawa: ...and?  Please explain your answer.

The view alone doesn't make you anti-town; additionally, you do realize this is BYOR, right? There aren't any vanilla townies, and everybody has a role that's potentially highly useful. Your reasoning only applies to vanilla townies.

How important do you think power roles are to scumhunting in general?  In low-mid power BYORs?

[FallacyofUrist]

FoU: He did. The link to it is in my last post.

I think you mislinked(it links to a previous BYOR), unless the link was somewhere else.
~~
Why inspect? I don't think you would kill someone rashly(being experienced and all that). And it seems likely to me that ZU gave out more inspections than kills. Hm. Why blurt that out? Because it's true. I don't see why you would think I "blurted" it though.

Define good reasoning... hard to say. But lo, I can basically summarize "good reasoning" as "reasoning I can understand easily and doesn't have critical flaws within".
~~~
Do I support your decision to carry out your test? Yes. Why? Regardless of what happens and who or who is not lying, it should still result in some information given to be processed. If nothing goes wrong, that is. If NQT dies because of it, I'd be a bit irritated, but the role flip would still provide information.

Some guy said on these forums that information is the bread and butter of mafia. If your "test" provides information, I'd like it. If it doesn't, I'd not like it as much(lack of information is in itself, a kind of information).

So now what? If we're leaving NQT for the moment... 4maskwolf, do you have answers to the reasons for why people are suspecting you?

[Tawa]

Yes, yes I do.

Tawa: ...and?  Please explain your answer.

Whoops, sorry. He seems pretty suspect to me, so I suppose that your test should be useful in determining whether or not he's scum.

The view alone doesn't make you anti-town; additionally, you do realize this is BYOR, right? There aren't any vanilla townies, and everybody has a role that's potentially highly useful. Your reasoning only applies to vanilla townies.

How important do you think power roles are to scumhunting in general?  In low-mid power BYORs?

I think that they're pretty useful, and that a game without power roles would be much harder for the town than one with them. In low/mid power BYORs, they remain highly useful, as well, although some could probably be overshadowed by others.

[4maskwolf]

I would, if I was actually able to play that much.  Gimme a while to see what people have been saying and I'll start posting.

[FallacyofUrist]

Glad to hear it.

[Teneb]

Let's hope Teneb gets here soon...
Hm. Hm hm.

I did

NQT also missed a question in that post.

I just went through a lot of stress about an hour or so ago, so I'll post again later when I'm calmer.

[4maskwolf]

Claim One: I am a third-party.

Your claims were cute, but apparently false. Are you going to do some scum hunting today? Use your vote?

Of course I will, I just haven't had a chance to get on the forum since early yesterday.

Why did you do that 4mask?

Because I can?  Also, because I felt like doing something that amused me, so I copied NQT's format of claims, which I found personally amusing.

Everybody: Would we be better off without NQT here? Answering no will likely earn you my suspicion if you don't use good reasoning.

Yes, but not for the reason you'd probably think.

Everyone: Taking what you know about me and what you know about NQT into account, do you support my decision to carry out my test?  Explain your answer.  This will not change my plan for tonight.

It depends on how exactly you plan on testing, honestly.  Without knowing more about your testing strategy, I have no opinion on the test.

Everyone: What do you think about Jack's and NQT's claims?

It is terrifying.

Everyone: Who is most suspicious right now? (I'd say NQT, but the other players might have different opinions.)

Dunno.  I'm not going to give you ideas.

4maskwolf: Any reason you're ducking away from serious questions?  Any good reason?

Not really, honestly.  I was in a bad mood and decided to be snarky as fuck.  To honestly answer the questions: I'm reserving judgement on the claims right now, because there is nothing else to substantiate them, and I think NQT is the most suspicious for reasons I'll get to in a bit.

I'll get back to why NQT is scum in a bit, but since we all seem to be saying "I am town" in case there is a truthteller, I am town.

[FallacyofUrist]

In a bit... I take it you'll be looking back through the thread for a bit, or writing another post...

Wonderful. NQT, what do you think 4maskwolf is going to post regarding your scumminess?

[TheDarkStar]

Jack A T:

Everyone: Taking what you know about me and what you know about NQT into account, do you support my decision to carry out my test?  Explain your answer.  This will not change my plan for tonight.

Yes, because I don't know how honest NQT is. Why do you ask for our approval if it's not going to affect anything?


FoU:

Everybody: Would we be better off without NQT here? Answering no will likely earn you my suspicion if you don't use good reasoning.

It all depends on what NQT is. If NQT is town and is telling the truth, then their role will be very important. If NQT is scum, then we're better off without them. If NQT isn't lynched today, then we'll know if we should lynch him tomorrow.

Now a question for you: Why do you only care about bad reasoning if it's going to stop NQT from being lynched?


NQT:

His entire reasoning for not being lynched is "because he's town" and enigmatically stating that "there's better lynch candidates" without saying who and he doesn't think that town players should have any fear at all of being killed.

It's not that enigmatic, I then detailed in the very next post some better lynch candidates. Good town play has a certain degree of self-preservation, but unless you're role is worth more to the town than other town players you should be prepared to take a hit for the team if it means saving a [cop/doctor/etc]. Not sure how this view makes me anti-town.

Here's why it's odd that you think people who don't want to die are scummy: Everyone wants a chance to play and they want to avoid dying on Day 1. Additionally, everyone has a power role so your point about taking hits for more valuable roles is irrelevant.

Which do you think is scummier: someone who votes for you or someone who doesn't vote for you? You say that both are bad.

Don't quote Vader. But on a more serious note, Who would you say to be a better lynch candidate today, and for what reasons?

4mask joke claimed 3rd party which is a good bluff if he's not town, also he's not done anything useful with his time.

How is a joke claim a "good bluff if he's not town"? What do you mean by that?

[TheDarkStar]

EBWOP: Are there any questions that I missed?