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Author Topic: Double Weapons  (Read 3743 times)

AceSV

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Double Weapons
« on: August 06, 2015, 05:49:53 pm »

I'd like to try modding in some double weapons, such as Hook Swords and Deer Horn Daggers which are used in pairs, the Cicada Wing Blade which has a blade on either end, or the common Quarterstaff which can strike with any point. 

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To start with, any double weapon could be set up so that it requires two hands to wield, but that is a disadvantage.  What advantage would the weapon grant in exchange?

I see that there is a token called ATTACK_FLAG_INDEPENDENT_MULTIATTACK, but I'm not sure what that would do.  I see that it is used for Hydra head attacks so that each head gets its own attack.  Does that mean that a paired weapon like the hook sword could do one attack per blade?  Using the hook sword again, there are a lot of edges which can make an attack, the blade, the hook, the handguard and the pommel spike.  If independent muiltiattack was on there somewhere, does that mean the weapon could attack with its blade and its handguard at the same time?  (which is potentially okay if it's one blade and one handguard without being left/right specific and stops at two attacks)

Or using a double weapon could simply give the wielder more attack variations.  A pair of hook swords might have one handed attacks with the same properties as a normal sword, plus a "slash with both swords" attack that has a larger contact area compared to a normal sword, but longer recovery time. 

Finally, the double weapons could simple be more offensively effect as a trade off for not using a shield.  A pair of hook swords would logically be double the size of a single sword, and I'm assuming size has a positive impact on weapon damage.  I could fudge the numbers a little by adding extra velocity or penetration depth. 

I'm assuming this is not possible, but it would be logical for paired weapons to be better at parrying since you can put more weapon in the way. 
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TomiTapio

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Re: Double Weapons
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2015, 08:14:11 pm »

Yeah, gotta set them to occupy two hands.
I reckon a special weapon like that (two ends, or two daggers) attacks faster than a basic long halberd. So, short attack delay and recovery delay.

OldGenesis crossbow bashing and bayonet:
two stab attacks, to make bayonetting happen More Often.

[ATTACK:EDGE:8:500:bayonet:bayonets:NO_SUB:900] --same as dagger but nerfed a little. Might be too elite for wood and bone crossbows.
   [ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:4]
[ATTACK:EDGE:8:400:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:900]
   [ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:4]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:4000:4000:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:1350]
   [ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:4]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:4000:4000:fumble:fumbles:NO_SUB:850]
   [ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:5:5] long time
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vjmdhzgr

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Re: Double Weapons
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2015, 09:03:29 pm »

The only way to get this to work mostly as you want, is to set them up as one weapon for one hand, then as an adventurer pick up two of them. I think that would fit most of what you want, except that it wouldn't be usable in fortress mode, or by anybody except you in adventurer mode. It also insures that they will always be used in two hands, and no giant or whatever will pick up the two weapons and use them in one hand. The [ATTACK_FLAG_INDEPENDENT_MULTIATTACK] just means that it can attack with all heads without penalties. An example of why this wouldn't work with one weapon is in adventurer mode, if you select a punch with your left hand and multiattack, then you can't also scratch with your left hand, as you're already punching with it you can't do both at the same time. Same thing with weapons, it just counts it as one weapon so if you're slashing with it you can't slash with it at the same time because you're already slashing with it. You are right that one weapon can't be made better at parrying, but two weapons in one hand each would probably be twice as good as just one weapon.

About quarterstaffs and cicada wing blades, I don't really see why you even need to ask about those. Of course you can add them in, they're just one weapon so just add different attack types like a sword. Though the attacks would probably be identical for either side so they're not really necessary, but you could add them. Really I'm just confused what the question is, there are two handed weapons in vanilla dwarf fortress. I don't see why these would be different.
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AceSV

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Re: Double Weapons
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2015, 09:59:57 pm »

The only way to get this to work mostly as you want, is to set them up as one weapon for one hand, then as an adventurer pick up two of them. I think that would fit most of what you want, except that it wouldn't be usable in fortress mode, or by anybody except you in adventurer mode. It also insures that they will always be used in two hands, and no giant or whatever will pick up the two weapons and use them in one hand. The [ATTACK_FLAG_INDEPENDENT_MULTIATTACK] just means that it can attack with all heads without penalties. An example of why this wouldn't work with one weapon is in adventurer mode, if you select a punch with your left hand and multiattack, then you can't also scratch with your left hand, as you're already punching with it you can't do both at the same time. Same thing with weapons, it just counts it as one weapon so if you're slashing with it you can't slash with it at the same time because you're already slashing with it. You are right that one weapon can't be made better at parrying, but two weapons in one hand each would probably be twice as good as just one weapon.

About quarterstaffs and cicada wing blades, I don't really see why you even need to ask about those. Of course you can add them in, they're just one weapon so just add different attack types like a sword. Though the attacks would probably be identical for either side so they're not really necessary, but you could add them. Really I'm just confused what the question is, there are two handed weapons in vanilla dwarf fortress. I don't see why these would be different.

I don't play a lot of Adventure mode, I'm looking for Fortress Mode solutions.

For cicada blade type weapons, my theory is that you hold the right side in your right hand and the left side in your left hand and can therefore make attacks with your right and left hand as though you were holding separated weapons in your right and left hands, theoretically making consecutive strikes faster than if one was wielding a single weapon.  I realize that's not particularly realistic, it would just be for flavor. 

I made this, but I haven't tested:
Quote
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWALLOW]
[NAME:swallow:swallows]
[SIZE:1200]
[SKILL:PIKE]
[TWO_HANDED:700000]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:62500]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:5]
[ATTACK:EDGE:20000:8000:slash:slashes:right blade:1250]
   [ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]
   [ATTACK_FLAG_INDEPENDANT_MULTIATTACK]
[ATTACK:EDGE:20000:8000:slash:slashes:left blade:1250]
   [ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]
   [ATTACK_FLAG_INDEPENDANT_MULTIATTACK]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:3000:bunt:bunts:shaft:1000]
   [ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:2:2]

If you're wondering, no, it's not meant for dwarves. 
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AceSV

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Re: Double Weapons
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2015, 08:31:00 am »

Okay, I tried the swallow in Arena and it didn't work.  I didn't exactly understand what vjmdhzgr meant, but I now I can see.  If the weapon is flagged for Good Multiattack, the multiattack has to come from a different item, so you could attack with the right blade of a swallow and then bite without penalty.  That would be good for a dagger or knuckle duster, but it's not what I want here. 

The AI fights with the swallow at pretty much the same pace as longswords and are outclassed by longsword+shield.  Maybe a better flavorful idea would be to give the slash with right/left blade attacks 2:2 speed and make a slash with both blades attack with 4:4 speed. 
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could God in fact send a kea to steal Excalibur and thereby usurp the throne of the Britons? 
Furry Fortress 3 The third saga unfurls.  Now with Ninja Frogs and Dogfish Pirates.