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Author Topic: Stellar Arms Race, USAA: 1972 Design  (Read 9678 times)

10ebbor10

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Re: Stellar Arms Race, USAA: 1971 Design
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2015, 01:35:16 am »

Fine.

Type 700 ASAT

An air to space missile, this three-stage missile is launched from a stratospheric platform, such as our jet fighter, into a suborbital trajectory that intersects with the target. Method of destruction is kinetic, ak, direct collision. Aiming systems utilize infrared, which should be very usefull in space,  as there's no real way to hide your heat signature.
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Happerry

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Re: Stellar Arms Race, USAA: 1971 Design
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2015, 01:43:27 am »

After further thought, I vote to design our own medium ranged Radar Guided Missiles.
Come on people, we need one of these or something else to fill this slot or we're going to continue horribly dying in the air duels.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Stellar Arms Race, USAA: 1971 Design
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2015, 02:19:28 am »

Not really. If we fix our anti-radiation in the revision, their missile weaponry won't work anymore.

That or we can revise our fighter to go faster and be radar absorbant.
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Happerry

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Re: Stellar Arms Race, USAA: 1971 Design
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2015, 02:41:41 am »

Not really. If we fix our anti-radiation in the revision, their missile weaponry won't work anymore.
....Er, what? Why would doing anything to our anti-ground structure missile have any effect at all on air to air duels, much less make their missiles not work any more?

That or we can revise our fighter to go faster and be radar absorbant.
I'm pretty sure that 'radar invisible/absorbent' is something you have to design in from the start, not after the production run has been started.

The big issue is that we can only fire our thermal tracking missiles from behind them, because for some reason we can't lock onto their engines from the front. Meanwhile, their missiles can be locked on any old time. As long as that's the calculation, we're going to loose the air duels because our people will usually die in the first pass while they can't attack and the enemy can. Our advantage after that pass means nothing, because basically no one survives to use it. We either need our own radar missile or a means of countering theirs. And I again doubt we can add any worthwhile radar absorbantness in as a revision and still have a worthwhile fighter. So between the choice of trying to design a radar jammer that might or might not work or missiles that will most likely work, I'll go with the missiles.

If you can think of another way to get around this issue, I'll happily listen.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Stellar Arms Race, USAA: 1971 Design
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2015, 03:10:19 am »

Quote
....Er, what? Why would doing anything to our anti-ground structure missile have any effect at all on air to air duels, much less make their missiles not work any more?

The enemy missile weaponry utilizes semi-active radar homing. Take out the illumination, and it fails. Besides, we're loosing due to the SAM's, not their rocket fighter.

Quote
So between the choice of trying to design a radar jammer that might or might not work or missiles that will most likely work, I'll go with the missiles.

That is not the choice presented to you. The choice is between an Anti-radiation missile, which is in essence a warhead that targets their radar system and a radar guided missile. The ARM is better, as it doesn't need the fighter to illuminate the target. The target will illuminate itself if it wants to fire.

Edit : misread that. The problem is not with the missile, but with the fact that our fighters are outmaneuvered. Fix the fighter, and the missile will be usefull.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 03:14:13 am by 10ebbor10 »
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Happerry

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Re: Stellar Arms Race, USAA: 1971 Design
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2015, 03:23:53 am »

Quote
....Er, what? Why would doing anything to our anti-ground structure missile have any effect at all on air to air duels, much less make their missiles not work any more?

The enemy missile weaponry utilizes semi-active radar homing. Take out the illumination, and it fails. Besides, we're loosing due to the SAM's, not their rocket fighter.
We're loosing against the ground and the enemy fighter. Here's the quote from the battle report.

Quote
In their rare face-offs on this front, Type 20s are unable to use the superior range of their missiles at the opening of fights, as the MRAAM IR warheads are only capable of locking onto hot exhaust ports. As such, Z-1s are often allowed to fire their missiles first, which gain a reputation for their deadly accuracy. However, if even a single Type 20 survives the initial volley, the flight of Z-1s are doomed to be picked off one by one by MRAAMs and autocannon fire. As such, Z-1 pilots quickly learn to fire their missiles and climb away, where Type 20s can't reach them. In spite of the disintegration problem they're still much faster than most jets, and entire wings of Type 20s are taken down by Z-1s taking advantage of their superior climbing ability to ambush them from above. Plane VS plane engagements on this front are in favor of Z-1s.

In short, our plane is a better fighter, but it doesn't normally matter because our missile can't be used until we're behind them and they can climb up higher then us so we can't attack them anyway. We need a missile we can use from the front in the initial pass. It can be radar guided or lock onto their radar (I admittedly didn't think of having ours home in on their radar but I still think radar guided missiles of our own would be more generally useful), either way. But using an anti-ground missile against fighters is not the answer.

That is not the choice presented to you. The choice is between an Anti-radiation missile, which is in essence a warhead that targets their radar system and a radar guided missile. The ARM is better, as it doesn't need the fighter to illuminate the target. The target will illuminate itself if it wants to fire.

Edit : misread that. The problem is not with the missile, but with the fact that our fighters are outmaneuvered. Fix the fighter, and the missile will be usefull.
The current Missile still won't be useful because it can only be used from behind them, by which time they've already killed most of our flight and are now climbing to safety. The Anti-Radation Missile is even less useful because it's designed to be used against ground targets, not air targets.

I'd prefer to just design some LEO/High orbital dropped bombs instead of trying to fix the anti-radation missile, honestly. Just blast them from outside the range of their SAMS.

But for fighter duels fixing our plane's speed issue won't let us start winning because we need a working weapon, not a better plane. We're already winning any air duels that turn into dogfights after the initial pass, that's why they're sticking to killing us all in said initial pass and then refusing to dogfight afterwards. Until we can get equal odds in the first pass, that's not going to change.
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notquitethere

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Re: Stellar Arms Race, USAA: 1971 Design
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2015, 05:01:35 am »

Greetings Comrades!

I agree with Comrade Happerry that our Type 20 is very close to being a superior aircraft. I suggest we look to improving the IR targeting on our Type 500 MRAAM, making it much more sensitive so that it can detect the heat of an aircraft's skin. This sort of narrow improvement that builds upon our existing technology shouldn't be too taxing for our resources but would greatly improve the effectiveness of the Type 20's in a dog fight.
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Happerry

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Re: Stellar Arms Race, USAA: 1971 Design
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2015, 05:04:32 am »

Greetings Comrades!

I agree with Comrade Happerry that our Type 20 is very close to being a superior aircraft. I suggest we look to improving the IR targeting on our Type 500 MRAAM, making it much more sensitive so that it can detect the heat of an aircraft's skin. This sort of narrow improvement that builds upon our existing technology shouldn't be too taxing for our resources but would greatly improve the effectiveness of the Type 20's in a dog fight.
That's quiet a good idea. But that's also an idea for the Revision, as that's when we modify what we already have... Though if we're going to do that in the revision phase, I'll happily change my vote to the Type 700 ASAT so we actually can continue on with the game. That modification shouldn't be too hard and it'll let us do the important thing of not dying horribly.

Also, thanks for joining us here, and I hope you have lots of fun. ^_^
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notquitethere

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Re: Stellar Arms Race, USAA: 1971 Design
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2015, 05:20:31 am »

Thanks for having me!

Ah right, Revision is a separate phase. Yeah, let's revise the Type 500s in the revision phase and try and develop something else now. In theory I'm in favour of the Type 700 ASAT, but why do we specifically want to build an air to space missile right now?
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Happerry

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Re: Stellar Arms Race, USAA: 1971 Design
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2015, 05:37:19 am »

Thanks for having me!

Ah right, Revision is a separate phase. Yeah, let's revise the Type 500s in the revision phase and try and develop something else now. In theory I'm in favour of the Type 700 ASAT, but why do we specifically want to build an air to space missile right now?
You can basically sum it up as 'to blow up their spy satellites, the weapon satellites they were considering building, and to threaten to blow up the capsules their astronauts have to ride around in, thusly messing with their space program.'

Also, just so you know, normally bolding something means you're voting for it in these games. It's to help the Game Master pick out the votes from the general conversation. So if you didn't mean to vote for the type 700...
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notquitethere

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Re: Stellar Arms Race, USAA: 1971 Design
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2015, 05:40:46 am »

That explanation works for me, I'm happy to vote for the Type 700.
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Parsely

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Re: Stellar Arms Race, USAA: 1971 Design
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2015, 05:51:17 am »

The big issue is that we can only fire our thermal tracking missiles from behind them, because for some reason we can't lock onto their engines from the front.
This was an actual problem with early IR guided missiles.
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Happerry

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Re: Stellar Arms Race, USAA: 1971 Design
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2015, 06:11:24 am »

The big issue is that we can only fire our thermal tracking missiles from behind them, because for some reason we can't lock onto their engines from the front.
This was an actual problem with early IR guided missiles.
Whatever the reason it sure isn't making those fights survivable for our pilots. Good thing we have a Revision Phase for upgrades!
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Parsely

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Re: Stellar Arms Race, USAA: 1971 Design
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2015, 09:25:26 pm »

Type 700 ASAT
Air to space missile with a kinetic kill warhead: this three-stage missile is only capable of being launched from a stratospheric fighter, which includes the Type 20. Its inserted into orbit, assisted by the jet's speed, where it then attempts to intersect with the target. Uses infrared technology developed in-house that's more compact, more precise, and superior to anything existing in the world today, including that which is used in the Type 500. [1 Chemical, 2 Ores, Inexpensive]

+Tech: Infrared Sensors

The MRAAMs are retrofitted with the new system at no extra cost, which lets them lock onto enemy fighters from any direction. However, unless they're revised, the missile remains bulky despite the weight reduction, and still has a hard time maneuvering.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 09:39:47 pm by GUNINANRUNIN »
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notquitethere

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Re: Stellar Arms Race, USAA: 1971 Design
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2015, 11:01:39 pm »

If the tech upgrade for the infrared-sensors was automatic, do we still have revise action to play with?
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