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Author Topic: The Cleanliness Industry  (Read 2966 times)

Bulwarken

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The Cleanliness Industry
« on: July 31, 2015, 08:15:06 pm »

I find that my forts always get covered in blood, guts, and other nasty stuff. This usually causes lag to creep up, and eventually can kill my fort. To stop this I use hacks to clean things, but perhaps a different solution could be put into play.

The waste drain



This is a new designation: the waste drain. Basically, its a place where dwarfs dump contaminated water after cleaning. The player can decide to make it a cistern that will eventually fill up, or the player can make a pipe system that allows it to drain out of the map. The player could even use a dwarfen atom smasher, or come up with some other ingenious or purposefully stupid system of waste disposal.

Mopdwarfs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaoU3_u-c_g

A new labor: mopping. A dwarf that has mopping has his highest skill receives the class "mopdwarf". Instead of mopping randomly, mopping would work like mining, allowing the player to select the areas they want cleaned. And instead of being armed with a pickaxe, mopdwarfs need a mop and a bucket. Mops are made out of wood or metal, and require a "mop head" made out of some form of cloth. Sheep wool works the best, and can absorb the most waste before it needs to be cleaned in a bucket. As for the bucket, its an item already in the game. In order to mop, a mopdwarf first has to fill his bucket at a water source. After cleaning a few tiles, the dwarf's water bucket gets contaminated. After this, the dwarf has to empty the bucket at a designated waste drain, and then can refill the bucket to repeat the process.

The soap-mixer
If a player wants to spend more resources to create a more effective cleanliness industry, the player can create a workstation called "Sopamixing". When mop dwarfs are not busy cleaning, they gather soap and water in the workstation, and mix it together to create "soapy water". While mopping, mopdwarfs can fill their buckets with this water instead in order to mop more effectively.

The Plague Suit



Sometimes, substances that the player encounters in dwarf fortress can be incredibly dangerous to dwarfs, causing nasty effects like necrosis. In order to help dwarfs to be less defenseless against these contaminants, I recommend a new clothing type: The Plague Suit. Made of leather, a dwarf wearing a full plague suit is completely protected from contaminants. However, dwarfs can still breathe in contaminants, unless they filter the nose-piece by filling it with golden salve. Over time, this salve needs to be replaced in order for its effectiveness to be maintained. This cloathing can be assigned to doctors, mopdwarfs, and even military dwarfs. There could even be a metal variant that provides a bit more protection in combat situations.

The washroom



Even in ancient times, people took a bath. Some cultures did it only occasionally, while others did it every day. Bathing would be a wonderful addition to any fort, because otherwise it is almost impossible to clean dwarfs after they get dirty. I propose the washtub: a new workstation. Washtubs can be made out of wood, stone, and metal. Also, I propose the bathdwarf, a new class of dwarf that's highest skill is bath management. It is the bath dwarf's job to maintain the baths in the fort, changing their water. Taking a cold bath can give dwarfs unhappy thoughts, so warming the water first in a water-heater workstation can be smart. Dwarfs can be set to take baths automatically when they get dirty, and also the player can select individual dwarfs to take a bath as soon as they can in the workstation's menu.

Of course, more options for the player to choose for cleaning would be great. One idea is a special drain,  that when water goes through it to the z level bellow, it creates a "shower", which freely passes through drains without building up, and will only build up as water again when it hits a solid tile. There could also be a way to designate water pools as a washing area, and there could be a water furnace designed to warm up water tiles adjacent to it for this.

The Quarantine


If things get terrible in a fort due to some nasty substance, or a disease (if these are ever added), the player could have the option to designate an area of their fort as a quarantine area. Military dwarfs can then be assinged to different areas to help enforce this quarantine. Of course, there is always the opportunity for the infected dwarfs and their loved ones on the outside to get mad about their separation and start a riot, most likely with devastating results.

If things get super bad, a player might order bodies to be burned. This is effective at stopping a contamination from spreading, but it also creates unhappy thoughts because of "the smell of burnt flesh", "loved one was cremated and didn't receive a proper burial", etc.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 08:23:03 pm by Bulwarken »
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Bumber

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Re: The Cleanliness Industry
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2015, 08:26:47 am »

All of these things can be done with what we already have:

Waste drain - Cleaning labor gets rid of contaminants.
Mopdwarves - Cleaning labor. You can burrow dwarves in an area until they clean it.
Soap-mixer - Dwarves already clean themselves using a bar of soap (optional?) and water. IIRC, cleaning floors doesn't require either.
Plague suit - Just like you said, it's a leather suit. Any armor already works just as well.
Washroom - Well.
Quarantine - Burrows / hospital. Magma.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 08:33:32 am by Bumber »
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Deboche

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Re: The Cleanliness Industry
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2015, 03:21:07 pm »

This is a great suggestion if coupled with feces and urine. Otherwise, having such a complex cleaning system when filth isn't a consistent problem seems like a waste of time. Ragpickers would be more useful at this point.
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nanomage

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Re: The Cleanliness Industry
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2015, 09:58:24 pm »

though i wouldn't say I support the bulk of this suggestion, it includes two things that are much needed and which I think lots of people would be glad to see in sooner rather than later.
It's cleaning designation (with or without tools) and the ability to order dwarves to get washed.
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SixOfSpades

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Re: The Cleanliness Industry
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2015, 12:35:11 am »

Also a should-be: a Scullery workshop, to wash all of those mugs, and cauldrons, and ladles, and knives, and forks, and spoons, and plates, and bowls. Seriously. Have you ever tried eating a "unit" of stew, using nothing but your bare hands?
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Deboche

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Re: The Cleanliness Industry
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2015, 03:51:06 pm »

If it's in a barrel, you don't even need hands.
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Tristan Alkai

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Re: The Cleanliness Industry
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2015, 05:28:32 pm »

though i wouldn't say I support the bulk of this suggestion, it includes two things that are much needed and which I think lots of people would be glad to see in sooner rather than later.
It's cleaning designation (with or without tools) and the ability to order dwarves to get washed.

I agree.  Both of these are INCREDIBLY overdue.  More to the point, why would you include the Cleaning labor without an associated way to designate tiles to be cleaned?  The work-arounds currently available are pointlessly cumbersome. 

Also a should-be: a Scullery workshop, to wash all of those mugs, and cauldrons, and ladles, and knives, and forks, and spoons, and plates, and bowls. Seriously. Have you ever tried eating a "unit" of stew, using nothing but your bare hands?

This would require proper implementation of ANY sort of eating containers and tools.  Which we currently don't have.  They're just "finished goods," useful to fill up traders and not much else. 

Even with proper use of eating utensils, and tracking their status as dirty or clean, I still don't see the need for a separate scullery. 

1. Option one: Wash things up next to the well, just like dwarves currently dump water over themselves there while "bathing" (though the available hardware seems to suggest something slightly more akin to a shower). 

2. Option two: If you feel the need for soapy and/or hot water, do it at the kitchen.  It has a stove to heat large amounts of liquid in.  Heating a large pot of soapy water for washing stuff isn't all that much different from heating up a large pot of broth for stew.  In fact, it's easier, since wash water becomes too hot to use well before we get to proper simmering or boiling temperatures. 
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SixOfSpades

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Re: The Cleanliness Industry
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2015, 06:59:53 pm »

Also a should-be: a Scullery workshop, to wash all of those mugs, and cauldrons, and ladles, and knives, and forks, and spoons, and plates, and bowls. Seriously. Have you ever tried eating a "unit" of stew, using nothing but your bare hands?
This would require proper implementation of ANY sort of eating containers and tools.  Which we currently don't have.  They're just "finished goods," useful to fill up traders and not much else.
Yeah. I see this as part of the main Kitchen overhaul. Knives would be useful to prevent dwarves getting irritated when eating a roast, and outright mandatory for cooking any kind of meat or veggies.

Quote
Even with proper use of eating utensils, and tracking their status as dirty or clean, I still don't see the need for a separate scullery.
True, both functions could take place in one workshop . . . you could also realistically craft stone figurines in the Jeweler's Shop, or even milk your goats at the Loom if you really wanted to. Modern residential kitchens perform dual-duty in one room. But commercial, industrial, and military kitchens do not, at least not as far as I know, the food-prep sinks are clearly separate from the dishwashing sinks. And DF kitchens are far more communal, industrial-grade than a single-family kitchen.

The main difference between a Kitchen & a Scullery would be plumbing. On average, a Kitchen would only need about 1 bucket of water for every 4 or 5 meals prepared, an easy job for the Cook's apprentice gopher. But a Scullery would need 1 or even 2 buckets per load (true, you can easily wash multiple dishes per load, but that means you need extra dishes to cover for the ones that can't be used because they're waiting to be washed), almost necessitating an aqueduct/pipe to be routed directly to the Scullery if it's going to be the least bit efficient, and then you have to have some place for all that waste grey-water to go (NOT anywhere near the communal drinking well, thank you).

Washing dishes at the Kitchen would still be possible, and in fact practical during a fort's early days. But as the population piles up, and their plates & forks do too, the Kitchen would become so clogged with Wash Dishes jobs (which take longer because of the water-hauling duties) that the Cook can barely even set foot in there. Time to dig an aqueduct for a Scullery.
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Tristan Alkai

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Re: The Cleanliness Industry
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2015, 07:12:38 pm »

Also a should-be: a Scullery workshop, to wash all of those mugs, and cauldrons, and ladles, and knives, and forks, and spoons, and plates, and bowls. Seriously. Have you ever tried eating a "unit" of stew, using nothing but your bare hands?
This would require proper implementation of ANY sort of eating containers and tools.  Which we currently don't have.  They're just "finished goods," useful to fill up traders and not much else.
Yeah. I see this as part of the main Kitchen overhaul. Knives would be useful to prevent dwarves getting irritated when eating a roast, and outright mandatory for cooking any kind of meat or veggies.

Even with proper use of eating utensils, and tracking their status as dirty or clean, I still don't see the need for a separate scullery.
True, both functions could take place in one workshop . . . you could also realistically craft stone figurines in the Jeweler's Shop, or even milk your goats at the Loom if you really wanted to. Modern residential kitchens perform dual-duty in one room. But commercial, industrial, and military kitchens do not, at least not as far as I know, the food-prep sinks are clearly separate from the dishwashing sinks. And DF kitchens are far more communal, industrial-grade than a single-family kitchen.

The main difference between a Kitchen & a Scullery would be plumbing. On average, a Kitchen would only need about 1 bucket of water for every 4 or 5 meals prepared, an easy job for the Cook's apprentice gopher. But a Scullery would need 1 or even 2 buckets per load (true, you can easily wash multiple dishes per load, but that means you need extra dishes to cover for the ones that can't be used because they're waiting to be washed), almost necessitating an aqueduct/pipe to be routed directly to the Scullery if it's going to be the least bit efficient, and then you have to have some place for all that waste grey-water to go (NOT anywhere near the communal drinking well, thank you).

Washing dishes at the Kitchen would still be possible, and in fact practical during a fort's early days. But as the population piles up, and their plates & forks do too, the Kitchen would become so clogged with Wash Dishes jobs (which take longer because of the water-hauling duties) that the Cook can barely even set foot in there. Time to dig an aqueduct for a Scullery.

Okay then, how about a toggle to allow (or not allow) specific automatic reactions (including the "render fat" currently in the game and the "wash dishes" job under discussion)?  I seem to remember reading somewhere about kitchens getting clogged with "render fat" jobs (I personally have never managed to get a fort big enough that I might even reasonably expect to see this) so setting one aside for that and a different kitchen for prepared meals set to not allow the job to be automatically added might make sense.  Similar commands would allow players to set one kitchen aside as a scullery, while a different one is used to prepare meals. 

A lot of other things would benefit from this sort of command.  Once milking and shearing are properly automated, it might be nice to designate one Farmer's workshop for that and another one for Threshing tasks.  Or one Loom for automatically collecting webs while a different one works with yarn and plant fibers. 

Getting back to the original scullery comment, pipes for proper indoor plumbing (sinks and drains) seem to be currently cumbersome at best (requiring mined tunnels, rather than the much narrower pipes of typical water plumbing).  I therefore envisioned the "wash dishes" job as taking some big (probably dirty) cooking pit, filling it water and soap, and using that as the container to wash everything (finishing with the pot itself) rather than the plugged sink more typical with plumbing.  As far as I can tell, running hot water is not really a thing in DF, short of the cumbersome (and hazardous) work-around of adding a nearby magma source.  Most of the time, hot water would therefore be heated over some sort of stove.  Something we would recognize as a kitchen sink is, as far as I can tell, currently impossible to build in DF (although mods make this not totally out of the question). 
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 07:28:38 pm by Tristan Alkai »
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Zammer990

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Re: The Cleanliness Industry
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2015, 05:05:33 am »

I think dangerous contaminants would have to become more commonplace for a cleanliness industry to be needed; excluding forgotten beasts, there is only one(?) substance with a contact syndrome, and that only works on gnomes.
Of forgotten beasts, some won't have and emission at all
... and of those that do, only some will be vapours or dusts that persist
... and of those only some will have contact syndromes
... and of those only some will be dangerous
Moreover, the time difference between fortress mode and adventure mode makes syndrome timing more complex; if you want a dwarf dizzy to the point of incapacitation in fortress mode fo a meaningful amount of time, you have to give them a syndrome that lasts nigh-infinitely for an adventure mode player.

I think sewage handling would be an interesting part of the game, so long as it was done in a not-too-annoying way, the way many of the industries to already (no need to dig giant sewage canals, though that could be fun).
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