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[Bakaridjan]

I've got a new 4x4 embark. It's got 3 squares of haunted tropical savannah or something like that. It's also got a necromancer neighbor and should attract goblins as well. The main thing is that I have no water topside, no aquifer and very few trees. I've found the first cavern level and it's almost all water, in fact I've only just spotted a few areas on the edges that actually have land. Oh, and its a deep level, about 11 z levels, with very few large open spaces, and it begins about 40 z levels down.

So far all of my forts have been topside, in the first 10 z levels or so, but I'm considering building my fort under the first cavern level. That would make any projects with water a whole lot easier and put me a lot closer to the magma. I'm not interested in turtling though and would probably maintain some sort of outpost up-top with some barracks, a trade depot and some stockpiles for trade goods etc. There's also platinum and tetrahedrite that I'll need to dig into. I haven't done much exploratory digging so there might even be coal, which could change things.

I guess I'm wondering what others experiences with deep fortresses are. Was it more fun/less fun? Got any brilliant ideas of what to do or not to do? I'm thinking I'll probably use minecarts for the bulk of transport up and down from the surface.

[Zac]

 It depend if you're planning to build an "above ground" fort inside the cavern or if you simply prefer to dig a normal fort under or around it.

In your case, one of the most Fun thing that could happen is if you dig your big undersea from below and end up flooding the whole fortress (Also, see cave-in). Though it would obviously be more !!FUN!! with magma.

I would recommend some kind of emergency containment device. Like regular rows of floodgates/drawbridges to separate the different sections of your fortress from each other, just in case. A sewer system under the fort might also be useful to drain the water from partially flooded areas.

[Rose]

I've made fortresses where I dug rooms in the cavern columns, and it turned out pretty well.

You have to make sure you close off the sides of the caverns, though.

[Bakaridjan]

I've made fortresses where I dug rooms in the cavern columns, and it turned out pretty well.

You have to make sure you close off the sides of the caverns, though.

That would be really cool from a design perspective. Since the whole floor is mostly covered in water, they would be living in tall pillars above an underground sea. It seems like walls made of glass block would be appropriate (Can flying forgotten beasts destroy windows while they're flying?). If only my dwarves had the capacity to appreciate such things. Also walling this cavern off would be akin to a mega project considering it's 11 levels tall and appears to have lots of connections with the map edge. I'm thinking I could do totally enclosed bridges (with floors not actual bridges) between the various pillars with fortifications for appreciating the view.

Hmmmm, I'll have to think about it. I wasn't really planning on this fort being an aesthetic marvel, but I suppose that's not out of the question. Given the time it would take I would probably have to have a temporary fort while I worked on it.

[Iamblichos]

In circumstances like these, I generally build my fort in the levels directly above the water cave, but use pumps/floodgates to irrigate the farm area.  You can punch through one of the columns for the lower caves/magma if and when the time comes.

[Bakaridjan]

In circumstances like these, I generally build my fort in the levels directly above the water cave, but use pumps/floodgates to irrigate the farm area.  You can punch through one of the columns for the lower caves/magma if and when the time comes.

If! the time for magma comes?

More seriously though, I've done some more digging up top and I think my biggest problem is going to be fuel. I haven't found any coal and undead are periodically stopping me from harvesting the remaining trees up top. I know the trees will come back in force later, but I don't want to wait for that. I've also got little harvestable wood in 1st cavern because of all the water. I think I'll keep going down before making any decisions about ultimate placement of the main fort. I sort of like the idea of not building anything up top. Just leave a dark hole for all the siegers to wander into. Can I inscribe my own slabs? I would love to put one up at the entrance counseling those who descend into the pit to bid farewell to the light of day and life. Eventually I'll build that water pump-stack and just turn the whole thing into a big toilet that I can flush.

[Staalo]

If the cavern is completely flooded you could make an artificial island by dropping a chunk of cavern ceiling into water. With any luck it will irrigate itself completely and soon you'll have trees growing on the island.

Other than the possible lack of land area, the first cavern is a very suitable depth for a functioning fortress. The surface can well be reserved only for goblinite mining operations.

[Dunamisdeos]

My very favorite project-type fort was an underground human style city.

Buildings were carved from the top down using channels, complete with streets, alleys, etc. It looked absolutely amazing, and provided easy access to caverns and magma. Plus, you have nigh-unlimited space to build defenses underground. For water, I just ran channels from the river above.

[Bakaridjan]

Hmmmm, first necromancer came in the first winter with 35 of his crusty friends. Definitely going to need to find more wood (cages/fuel) and some magma (disposal/fuel).

[Iamblichos]

If! the time for magma comes?

Well said.

More seriously though, I've done some more digging up top and I think my biggest problem is going to be fuel.

Yes, you want the 2d or 3d cavern specifically for tunnel tubes.  Each tunnel tube drops a TON of wood (like 20-30 logs, compared to 1-3 for the other types of fungus).

[Baffler]

If you don't like turtling, but still want some control over entry to your fort, I suggest building a multistory "cavern" between the 2nd and 1st natural caverns (or wherever there's space) and putting your fortifications and whatnot down there. It's all the fun of an entrance on open ground (without angry animals I guess, maybe open it to the natural caverns) but none of the puking and irritiation. Plus gigantic artificial chambers are pretty dwarfy.

[gefer8]

My current fortress is actually right beside the magma sea in a 1x1 embark. It's made everything smelting related very easy, while making the circus a more annoying neighbor than ever.

[Niddhoger]

My current fortress is actually right beside the magma sea in a 1x1 embark. It's made everything smelting related very easy, while making the circus a more annoying neighbor than ever.

This.  If you aren't going to settle near the surface, you might as well go whole-hog and hunker down on top of the magma sea.  So long as the only channels over the sea are the -exact- squares needed for your smelters, no critters will come through them.  This will largely eliminate your need for fuel and ease up your wood needs.  Steel will still require coal/charcoal, however (source of carbon).  You can usually find all 3 cavern layers with just one (or two) shafts dug down into the magma sea.  Look for a section of the third cavern you can easily wall off.  There is usually section that is only one z-level tall that can be walled off from all threats (including fliers).  If not, you'll need to irrigate.  Set up your farms around this section.  Between your farms on the bottom of the third layer and your forges above the sea, the rest of your fort can be squeezed anywhere.  If you don't have room to carve them out of pillars, don't be afraid to make a 2-3+ z-level wall to "secure" a section of the caverns for living quarters.  While building the wall, it helps to have a squad on standby in case dangerous critters get too close. 

You don't have to turtle, and as someone said can carve out a "staging area" between layers.  Just have a raising bridge linked to a lever that can block off your main shaft to divert enemies into your defenses (that still loop back to you main shaft/fortress).  You can very easily set up cave-ins and drowning chambers (like under that flood first cavern layer....) However, zombies can't be drowned, but they are still vulnerable to ballistae volleys (carve out a ~150x3 long corridor with 3 ballista on the end firing copper tipped blood thorn bolts >D) Repeating spike corridors and weapon traps... just whatever you'd do on the surface. 

The main problem is trade.  Even if you build a caravan ramp down the the magma sea, the caravan might turn around and leave before unloading if it takes too long.  The easiest solution is to set up garbage chutes.  Set up a "dump" over some hatches that drop 100+ z-levels (if they must) from the surface to your fort.  Trade for w/e you want them select them for dumping.  They'll be placed over the hatch.  Pull the lever and watch as glass jugs remain intact an tomatoes un-splattered from dropping so far! Just... make sure no dorfs are under the chute.  A single sock would kill a dorf dropped like that.  I've also heard of people doing this with clay.  Normal kiln near the surface dumping the clay boulders down to the magma kiln 100 z-levels below.  Its still a pain to drag items up for trade, so stick to lightweight/high value items that can be stuffed into bins... like jewel encrusted pig tail/GCS silk robes.  You -can- set up minecart tracks up to the surface with impulse ramps instead of powering them normally... but this is a serious exploit and takes forever to channel out.  Minecarts full of goods will also splatter any dorfs/animals in their way.