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Author Topic: Advanced metals in reborn  (Read 3140 times)

Ishar

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Advanced metals in reborn
« on: July 24, 2015, 02:44:44 pm »

So, I've tried reborn, and honestly I love it, but I'm a bit lost about the metalworking system. Can somebody provide some exact numbers?
Questions:

- I've read it in the manual that orichalcum has a 1% chance of emerging whenever I smelt any ore. Is this still accurate?
- I've seen an 'extract mithril from silver' reaction in the crucible. How does that work? I imagine it's not very effective, but I still don't see any reason not to spam it until every silver ore from surface to circus is converted into mithril.
- All in all, how many bars do I get when I smelt one piece of ore? This may be a noob question, since I've never cared to check in vanilla if a higher smelting skill acutally yields more bars, or just makes it go faster.
- How many bars do I use when crafting gear? There are some numbers in the manual, but it's highly suspicious, since it mentions platemail, armory, and such things that are no longer in the game.
- 'To forge volcanic gear, which is warm to the touch, you need to combine obsidian, slade, steel and mithril.' Is this the current method?
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smakemupagus

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Re: Advanced metals in reborn
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2015, 05:28:50 pm »

- I've read it in the manual that orichalcum has a 1% chance of emerging whenever I smelt any ore. Is this still accurate?

1% from unprocessed ores, 2% for processed.

Code: [Select]
Searching for: METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(15): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:IRON:100]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(26): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:IRON:100]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(36): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:NICKEL:100]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(45): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:GOLD:100]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(87): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:SILVER:100]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(128): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:COPPER:100]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(169): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:COPPER:100]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(183): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:LEAD:100]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(184): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:SILVER:50]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(196): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:ZINC:100]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(209): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:TIN:100]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(247): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:PLATINUM:100]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(308): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:COPPER:100]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(309): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:SILVER:20]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(320): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:SILVER:100]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(408): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:BISMUTH:100]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(502): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:IRON:100]
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt(553): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:1][METAL_ORE:ALUMINUM:100]
inorganic_z_ore_masterwork.txt(9): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:2][METAL_ORE:IRON:100][METAL_ORE:IRON:25]
inorganic_z_ore_masterwork.txt(20): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:2][METAL_ORE:IRON:100][METAL_ORE:IRON:25]
inorganic_z_ore_masterwork.txt(30): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:2][METAL_ORE:NICKEL:100][METAL_ORE:NICKEL:25]
inorganic_z_ore_masterwork.txt(37): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:2][METAL_ORE:GOLD:100][METAL_ORE:GOLD:25]
inorganic_z_ore_masterwork.txt(77): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:2][METAL_ORE:SILVER:100][METAL_ORE:SILVER:25]
inorganic_z_ore_masterwork.txt(116): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:2][METAL_ORE:COPPER:100][METAL_ORE:COPPER:25]
inorganic_z_ore_masterwork.txt(155): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:2][METAL_ORE:COPPER:100][METAL_ORE:COPPER:25]
inorganic_z_ore_masterwork.txt(165): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:2][METAL_ORE:LEAD:100][METAL_ORE:LEAD:25]
inorganic_z_ore_masterwork.txt(177): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:2][METAL_ORE:ZINC:100][METAL_ORE:ZINC:25]
inorganic_z_ore_masterwork.txt(188): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:2][METAL_ORE:TIN:100][METAL_ORE:TIN:25]
inorganic_z_ore_masterwork.txt(199): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:2][METAL_ORE:PLATINUM:100][METAL_ORE:PLATINUM:25]
inorganic_z_ore_masterwork.txt(240): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:2][METAL_ORE:COPPER:100][METAL_ORE:COPPER:25]
inorganic_z_ore_masterwork.txt(251): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:2][METAL_ORE:SILVER:100][METAL_ORE:SILVER:25]
inorganic_z_ore_masterwork.txt(264): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:2][METAL_ORE:BISMUTH:100][METAL_ORE:BISMUTH:25]
inorganic_z_ore_masterwork.txt(275): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:2][METAL_ORE:IRON:100][METAL_ORE:IRON:25]
inorganic_z_ore_masterwork.txt(286): [METAL_ORE:ORICHALCUM:2][METAL_ORE:ALUMINUM:100][METAL_ORE:ALUMINUM:25]
Found 34 occurrence(s) in 2 file(s)

(Note to self: sneaky Meph changed the internal name of orichalcum, to keep me on my toes ;) )
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 05:47:37 pm by smakemupagus »
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smakemupagus

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Re: Advanced metals in reborn
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2015, 05:31:44 pm »

- I've seen an 'extract mithril from silver' reaction in the crucible. How does that work? I imagine it's not very effective, but I still don't see any reason not to spam it until every silver ore from surface to circus is converted into mithril.

3 bars (450 urists) of silver, 1 flux, and fuel gives you between 1-3 bars of mithril, expected value of 1.6 bars.  Yes, it's quite spammable.

Code: [Select]
Searching for: extract mithril from silver
reaction_dwarf_civ.txt(4279): [NAME:Extract mithril from silver]
Found 1 occurrence(s) in 1 file(s)

Code: [Select]
[REACTION:SILVER_MITHRIL]
[NAME:Extract mithril from silver]
[BUILDING:CRUCIBLE:CUSTOM_M]
[BUILDING:MAGMA_CRUCIBLE:CUSTOM_M]
[REAGENT:A:450:BAR:NONE:INORGANIC:SILVER]
[REAGENT:B:1:BOULDER:NO_SUBTYPE:NONE:NONE][REACTION_CLASS:FLUX]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:MITHRIL][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[PRODUCT:50:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:MITHRIL][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[PRODUCT:10:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:MITHRIL][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[FUEL]
[SKILL:SMELT]

smakemupagus

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Re: Advanced metals in reborn
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2015, 05:37:36 pm »

- All in all, how many bars do I get when I smelt one piece of ore? This may be a noob question, since I've never cared to check in vanilla if a higher smelting skill acutally yields more bars, or just makes it go faster.

From raw ores in the vanilla smelter reaction, you generally get 4 bars per piece of ore (exceptions for the funny ores with multiple products like galena and tetrahedrite, where you get 4 of the main ore and a chance to get some variable quantity of the secondary.  See wiki for details).

From processed ores in the vanilla smelter reaction, in reborn, you get the standard 4 bars plus a chance to get 0-4 bonus bars.

smakemupagus

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Re: Advanced metals in reborn
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2015, 05:41:06 pm »

- How many bars do I use when crafting gear? There are some numbers in the manual, but it's highly suspicious, since it mentions platemail, armory, and such things that are no longer in the game.

At the forge,
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Metalsmith%27s_forge
Quote
The cost of a weapon or piece of armor in metal bars can be calculated by dividing its material size by three and rounding down, with no item costing less than one metal bar. The exception to this is some types of finished goods, which are created in different multiples from a single metal bar, depending on the skill of the Metal crafter. The table on the Melt_item page lists the cost of common items and their yields when melted.

So a mail shirt has a material size of 6 -> 2 bars.  Breastplate size 9 -> 3 bars.

Code: [Select]

[ITEM_ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_BREASTPLATE]
[NAME:breastplate:breastplates]
[ARMORLEVEL:3]
[UBSTEP:0]
[LBSTEP:0]
[SHAPED]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:100]
[LAYER_SIZE:20]
[LAYER_PERMIT:50]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:9]
[HARD]
[METAL]


[ITEM_ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_MAIL_SHIRT]
[NAME:mail shirt:mail shirts]
[ARMORLEVEL:2]
[UBSTEP:1]
[LBSTEP:1]
[LAYER:OVER]
[COVERAGE:100]
[LAYER_SIZE:15]
[LAYER_PERMIT:50]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:6]
[HARD]
[METAL]
[STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_CHAIN_ALL]


At custom workshops, the reaction consumes whatever it's specifically programmed to, so I can't give a general answer.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 05:42:49 pm by smakemupagus »
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smakemupagus

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Re: Advanced metals in reborn
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2015, 05:45:47 pm »

- 'To forge volcanic gear, which is warm to the touch, you need to combine obsidian, slade, steel and mithril.' Is this the current method?

1 bar (150 urists) of steel, 1 bar mithril, 1 obsidian.  Dwarves should definitely spam this.

Code: [Select]
Searching for: [REACTION:VOLCANIC
reaction_dwarf_civ.txt(4194): [REACTION:VOLCANIC]
Found 1 occurrence(s) in 1 file(s)

Code: [Select]
[REACTION:VOLCANIC]
[NAME:Make volcanic metal bar]
[BUILDING:VOLCANIC_FOUNDRY:CUSTOM_V]
[REAGENT:A:150:BAR:NONE:INORGANIC:STEEL]
[REAGENT:B:150:BAR:NONE:INORGANIC:MITHRIL]
[REAGENT:C:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:OBSIDIAN]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NONE:INORGANIC:VOLCANIC][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[SKILL:SMELT]

StagnantSoul

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Re: Advanced metals in reborn
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2015, 05:54:37 pm »

How could is the volcanic metal? If I posted my Burning Steel raw, could someone say which is better? And orichalcum? Wanna see if my metals are better than Meph's...
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smakemupagus

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Re: Advanced metals in reborn
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2015, 05:55:44 pm »

I could, but if you are enough of a modder to create your own metal you should be able to compare them yourself :P

... this might help, although it's out of date (ignore the "welded" materials) I think that volcanic and orichalcum still have the same stats.
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Masterwork:Metal
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 06:01:53 pm by smakemupagus »
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Advanced metals in reborn
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2015, 06:25:55 pm »

I always have to refer to charts and stuff to figure out my metals. I've only got two right now, Colossus Bronze and Burning Steel.

Burning Steel is made from dragon bones, iron, flux, and fuel. Slaughtering a fully aged dragon gives you A LOT of bones, meaning a lot of burning steel if you have the flux and iron. It's better than steel for edged weapons, a bit heavier, rather expensive, and decent for armour. Worse than divine metals and adamantine. Available to the gnomes and dwarves currently. Here's the raws.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And then there's my newer Colossus Bronze. It's made with tin, copper, aluminum, and flux. It's as heavy as platinum, and better for blunt weapons. Defense is better than steel, can defend itself from Burning Steel, but edged weapons are worse than copper and anyone less than a great armour user will be crushed under the weight. Available to the humans, gnomes, and sprites currently. Thinking of giving it to the draconians, as their best metal is just steel. Here's the raws.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 06:27:54 pm by StagnantSoul »
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Quote from: Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum
I threw night creature blood into a night creature's heart and she pulled it out and bled to death.
Quote from: Eric Blank
Places to jibber madly at each other, got it
Quote from: NJW2000
If any of them are made of fire, throw stuff, run, and think non-flammable thoughts.

smakemupagus

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Re: Advanced metals in reborn
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2015, 06:40:09 pm »

OK...   If we look at burning steel you have 1M urists modulus for everything, which is very good for shear (edged) but mediocre for impact (blunt) modulus.  Interestingly you have no deformation before failure, which means probably no bruises or broken bones for hits that "bend but don't break" armor.  In MDF only the mythical metals (addy and bifrost) have this property. 

StagnantSoul

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Re: Advanced metals in reborn
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2015, 06:52:37 pm »

Well Burning Steel is meant to be like bluesteel and other such mythical metals, it requires the killing and butchering of a dragon to make. Colossus Bronze is more of the super strong regular metal, hence why it's going to so many races. I'll be making at least two more metals, including one which needs the heartstone from a phoenix to create.
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Quote from: Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum
I threw night creature blood into a night creature's heart and she pulled it out and bled to death.
Quote from: Eric Blank
Places to jibber madly at each other, got it
Quote from: NJW2000
If any of them are made of fire, throw stuff, run, and think non-flammable thoughts.

smakemupagus

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Re: Advanced metals in reborn
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2015, 09:07:33 pm »

Makes sense!

StagnantSoul

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Re: Advanced metals in reborn
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2015, 10:23:27 pm »

So how do they stack up to Masterwork's best metals? I'm not sure what to call me next two... Jewel Steel, Singularity Metal, Silverite, some cool names are needed. Since I'm trying to make my mod as big as possible, I'm trying to kind of equal or at least approach Masterwork in quality. I suck at df, and I gave up at my graphic pack, so those are area's I'll be lacking in... :/
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Quote from: Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum
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Quote from: NJW2000
If any of them are made of fire, throw stuff, run, and think non-flammable thoughts.

smakemupagus

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Re: Advanced metals in reborn
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2015, 11:29:42 pm »

So how do they stack up to Masterwork's best metals?

For the first one, like i said, very good for shear (edged) but mediocre for impact (blunt) modulus.

edit;  The other one, Colossus Bronze, unless I'm misreading something, it's basically junk -- copper grade -- except that it's incredibly (beyond earth materials) dense.

Well, if you're making a big mod that you want to be of great quality, you really should figure out how to compare materials.  I don't know how to explain it any better than i already did on that wiki page, so if that's not doing it for you, you'll have to ask someone else!
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 11:36:24 pm by smakemupagus »
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Meph

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Re: Advanced metals in reborn
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2015, 11:36:04 pm »

From personal experience: I'd go easy on fantastical names and materials. Dwarves are pretty much invincible with steel already, and you cant go higher than adamantine (blasphemy), so everything in between is pretty much a filler, that does not have much gameplay value.

Masterwork only has 4.
Orichalcum, rare, good, but mostly used in magical/Special reactions.
Wolfram, heavy, good blunt weapons.
Mithril, exactly like steel, but lighter, needed for volcanic metal.
Volcanic, better than steel, extra damage against the strongest enemy.

That's it.
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