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Author Topic: TOAW 3 - Dear Leader Liberates Countrymen from Capitalist Oppression  (Read 5770 times)

Cthulhu

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The Operational Art of War 3 is the big daddy of operational-level wargames.  With an open-ended system designed to support any real or hypothetical modern conflict and the extreme fidelity required to (mostly) capture the unique aspects of various time periods, this is some hefty shit.  Every squad and piece of equipment in a unit is represented and simulated, different types of units and weapons interact the way you'd expect, like some of the other stupidly detailed wargames (Gary Grigsby's, for example, I believe War in the Pacific was LPed on here once) this has a weird effect of making a lot of it almost intuitive.  Once you get past the technical barrier of understanding the controls much of the details of combat behave in realistic and intuitive ways.  There were some hiccups along the way (something about jeeps fighting panzers) but those have been smoothed out.  Real life tactics work, you can often use historical material as suggestions for your own strategies, effectively the game allows for real world logic, rather than game-specific logic (compared to something like chess, which doesn't behave like anything except itself)

I think that, and the sheer number of possible scenarios, makes it very suitable for a let's play.  All the crowd really needs to know is how the round-based-combat works, something I don't think I've ever seen in another game.  Aside from that, the real strategy tends to be intuitive.  If you think an armored blitzkrieg on a thin left flank would work, you're probably right.  If you want to airdrop commandos behind enemy lines to destroy railroads and disrupt supply, well I don't know how we'll fit commandos on a Yak-9 but in theory it's perfectly valid.

So enough wanking about the game, let's do a Let's Play!  I'm going to be playing the Korea 50-51 scenario as North Korea.  The real war ended in a stalemate and ceasefire, but let's see if we can't do a little better.  Fair warning:  I'm not very good at this game.  I've only just started playing.  Korea 50-51 is technically a tutorial scenario but I've already completed the tutorial.  While I have a basic grasp of the controls there's some things I'm not clear on how to do.  That's part of where you guys come in.  The problem with these high-fidelity wargames is that a lot of times there's stuff you just wouldn't think to do because it's not normally an option.  Maybe with people who don't play the game giving suggestions I can get a wider pool of suggestions for how to go about crushing the capitalists. 

Without further ado, let's begin.  I'll explain the details of the combat system after we're briefed on the situation.

Spoiler: 6/25/50 (click to show/hide)

Here's a composite pic of RoK (Republic of Korea) and the southern half of DPRK.  We shouldn't need to see the rest of DPRK unless something has gone very wrong.    The NATO chits are confusing so I'll translate.  Red on red is DPRK, red on blue is RoK.  Later we'll see tan on green and black on green which are USA.  We may also see gold on red Chinese units if the US pushes into DPRK and if things go completely fcuk then green-on-red Soviet units may also intervene.  X is infantry, oval is armor, M is engineer, triangle is anti-tank, and dot is artillery.  On the east coast we have marines represented by an anchor, a motorcycle recon unit represented by a slash and two circles, and commandos with crossed arrows.  Armies are divided at the division level, different divisions don't work very well together so where possible we should keep the different divisions separate and avoid mushing them together.

To cover the state of hte various armed forces in the game:  The DPRK has a very powerful military right now.  We will continue to receive new infantry divisions frequently throughout the early part of the war, which should help keep us moving.  Our armor is from the Soviets and very strong as well.  Our biggest weakness is our air force which is composed of vintage Yakovlev and Lavochkin props against US jets.  Enemy interdiction on our troop movements will be a continuous problem that we won't be able to do much about unless the Soviets intervene.

The South Korean army is pretty crap at the start.  They have large numbers to draw on but they start out undermanned and outgunned.  With good tactics we should be able to destroy most of the RoK military in the first few turns. 

The United States is at the nadir of post-war demilitarization at this point and when they start out they'll be low morale and low readiness.  They'll quickly grow however and if we can't crush as much of them as possible early on they'll quickly become overpowering.  The main US beachhead is Pusan in the southeast and most of hteir troops will come from there. 

EDIT:  I forgot the other potential forces.

The Chinese are basically human wave.  They're extremely  numerous and highly motivated, but poorly armed and trained.  They're not likely to break but they're not likely to do anything useful, either.

The Soviets haven't demilitarized after world war 2 and are still a terrifying force.  In 1950 the soviets are the most powerful military in the world.  The only thing the US has on them is nuclear power; the Soviets have only just in the last year detonated their first atomic bomb.  If the nuclear cat comes out of the bag the soviets will have no reason not to start something and they're extremely strong even next to the fully militarized US.  At the same time, while I'm technically playing the Soviets if they get involved, we the players are fighting for the DPRK, not the USSR.  If America and the Soviets duke it out, we're just collateral damage.  That means we lose.

If we can be cheeky and capture Pusan early we may be able to win the war in one swoop.  We may also start world war 3.  There's a few special events to consider.  If the US pushes into Korea then China may intervene with increasing odds the farther north they reach.  If China intervenes or Communist forces occupy the Pusan anchorage the UN may authorize atomic strikes.  Atomic strikes will almost certainly lead to Chinese and Soviet intervention and open up the use of chemical weapons.  If we use chemical weapons the UN will as well.  It's a very precarious war and the wrong decisions could be devastating.  While it would certainly be fun to see, we're here to win and in World War 3 nobody wins.  There's also some logistical and strategic concerns to cracking the Pusan perimeter early and I'll cover those in my third post.


===========

I will now be getting drunk.  People can discuss their ideas about how to go about winning the war if you want and I might come in to try to type something as well.  Once I've sobered up I'll cover how combat works and start discussing what our strategic options are.  The start is pretty straightforward, it's only after we crack the 38th parallel that things really open up. 
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 06:38:36 am by Cthulhu »
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Cthulhu

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Re: TOAW 3 - Dear Leader Liberates Countrymen from Capitalist Oppression
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2015, 12:50:46 am »

Alright there might be some typos but I think I've sobered up enough to explain how combat works.  The game isn't like most strategy games where you can just attack with each unit individually and everybody else is like whatever.  It tries to simulate the idea that combat takes time.  If you want to do a blitzkrieg for example you need to use attacks to break a hole in the enemy line and then move your mechanized units through that hole.  Obviously if it takes three days to break the hole then your mechanized units have to wait three days and if the turns are seven days long then that means almost half of their available time has been used up.

Effectively, you plan one or more combats and then hit hte next turn button to resolve them.  Based on the amount of time the combat took, every unit of yours on the map loses a percentage of its movement allowance to represent the time the combat took.  This can mean a number of things.  If you don't plan on doing anything after a combat, you should probably make sure every unit is squared away and moved, because when the combat is over they'll lose time if they didn't move beforehand (the difference between moving while your units are fighting and waiting until the fight is over to move).  If you're trying to create an opportunity (like the aforementioned blitzkrieg) you should probably make sure you'll have enough time to take advantage after hte combat.  The more a unit has moved before it joins combat, the more time will be consumed, so if a unit moves 70% of its movement allowance and attacks you can expect the rest of your army to lose at least 70% of its movement allowance in turn (because it had to sit there and wait while your unit moved and attacked.  If you moved them all beforehand then they're good, the game assumes they all did their thing at hte same time)

In a defensive situation, which will probably happen for us at some point; Korea was a war of back-and-forth and grinding stalemates, it means you want to burn as much time as possible in combat to reduce the enemy's capacity to follow up on successes.  This generally means telling your units to ignore losses and only retreat when they've collapsed.  On an offensive side it's the same thing, if hte enemy is set to ignore losses you may find they're not retreating as fast as you intended.  A fight meant to take up 20% of your turn might take up 70% or more, crippling your ability to follow up.  This is pretty realistic and adds to the fun. 

As far as planning goes, remember that I can't just attack, see how it goes, attack again, see how it goes, attack again, see how it goes, push dudes through, win.  Everything takes time and while one unit is taking time the rest have to wait unless they have their own orders for the same time.  Either way, I can't do a hundred battles in a day.  As with most thigns in this kind of game, think with real world logic, not game logic, and we should be okay.

EDIT:  Next I'll put together a basic summary of the different kinds of strategies we can employ and we'll go from there.  I may also just play through the first couple turns first.  As I said, the first couple turns are mostly the same thing, it's only once the RoK front line is breaking up that our options open up.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 06:00:06 am by Cthulhu »
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Cthulhu

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Re: TOAW 3 - Dear Leader Liberates Countrymen from Capitalist Oppression
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2015, 12:51:30 am »

Links to the relevant posts:

Turn 1
Wherein North Korean troops cross the border successfully.

Turn 2 and Part 1 of Turn 3
Wherein the South Korean defensive line is enveloped and destroyed.

Turn 3 Part 2 and turn 4
America joins the fray, the eastern flank moves to encircle.

Turn 5
The 15th division blitzes the enemy supply lines as America goes on the offensive.

Turn 6
Best Korea buckles down and weathers the storm while the enemy's supplies run thin.

Turn 7
Wherein the North Korean counteroffensive thrusts out and is caught by an unending tide of US troops.  The beginning of the end?

« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 04:53:56 pm by Cthulhu »
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Iituem

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Re: TOAW 3 - Dear Leader Liberates Countrymen from Capitalist Oppression
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2015, 09:35:51 am »

This sounds awesome.  No strategic suggestions, but posting to say I'm watching.
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GentlemanRaptor

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Re: TOAW 3 - Dear Leader Liberates Countrymen from Capitalist Oppression
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2015, 10:28:22 am »

Interesting. PTW.
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Ghazkull

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Re: TOAW 3 - Dear Leader Liberates Countrymen from Capitalist Oppression
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2015, 04:06:41 pm »

ptw...supporting chemical weapons strikes :P
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Cthulhu

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Re: TOAW 3 - Dear Leader Liberates Countrymen from Capitalist Oppression
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2015, 04:51:09 pm »

Chemical weapons are only possible if the UN uses atomic bombs.  I'll run us through the first couple turns shortly.
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MonkeyHead

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Re: TOAW 3 - Dear Leader Liberates Countrymen from Capitalist Oppression
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2015, 05:01:18 pm »

PTW.

Kangnun looks rather vulnerable, allowing encirclement along the whole of the 38th and a nice stroll to Seoul.

Cthulhu

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Re: TOAW 3 - Dear Leader Liberates Countrymen from Capitalist Oppression
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2015, 05:12:10 pm »

It's vulnerable indeed.  To be honest the RoK front lines here are all very fragile and we shouldn't need to do any more than punch them in the face to take Seoul.  Annihilating their forces is another thing though and using our eastern division to encircle them is one option.  I'll post the other options in a minute.

IT BEGINS

Spoiler: The Order of Battle (click to show/hide)
This is as much for my use as yours.  As mentioned previously all DPRK divisions are set to internal support, which means they don't work directly with other divisions.  If we try to use troops from multiple divisions in one combat we'll suffer penalties.  Some details:  The sixth division is broken up, to the west about half of 6th Division is attacking the western peninsula near Haeju.  It's a straightforward fight and I'll redirect the troops back to the mainland once it's clear.  The rest of the 6th is up north in Pyongyang with our rail repair unit.  I'll bring them down as well.  When rail hexes change hands the rails have to be repaired and converted before they can be used.  Since rails are 90% of our supply system, the state of the railroads is the biggest limiting factor on how fast we can advance.

===

When you attack an inferior force there's a chance they'll automatically retreat without wasting your time. This is usually a good thing.  I need to see if you lose movement allowance for following up though; sometimes your units will move to occupy an awkward spot.  For this there's limited attacks that don't follow up which are mostly good for opening up flanks.  Anyway, the battle.



DPRK forces have crossed the 38th parallel and are already making inroads toward Seoul, so far no real combat.


Kangnung is surrounded...


...And its garrison is crushed.

That's the only real headway we've made from the first round of combat, they're holding up better than I expected. 

===



Here's my plan for the eastern seaboard.  The 5th division will move west along the road to encircle the main enemy force north of Seoul while the commando units will continue south.  The 15th infantry division which will be reaching the front  next turn will join them.

===



The 5th division moves for Wonju.  They won't be able to make it all the way to Seoul this turn but they can encircle the RoK eastern front for my 7th and 2nd divisions to destroy.  Interdiction by enemy aircraft continues to be a problem, one I don't really have the airpower to blunt.  My commandos have Tonghae surrounded but their low movement allowance means I'll need to wait to actually attack or I'll lose most of the movement allowance on the rest of my forces.

===



The push for Seoul is going a little slow but nothing too bad.  If anything it just means we'll be able to destroy more of their force when the 5th division gets there.  It's very difficult to actually destroy an enemy unit without encircling it.  You can see to the east we've encircled the forces defending Ch'unch'on and forced them into a single hex.

===



Finally, the end of turn 1.  The Ch'unch'on and Kangnung defenders have been annihilated and the steadily retreating western front will probably be the next to go as our 5th division moves in to cut off their avenues of retreat.  They blew the bridge to the south of Seoul which will hamper their ability to retreat and does some of the work for us.  It also delays our move southward.  Our forces are getting intermingled and once we've taken Seoul we're going to want to reorganize for the push down into the mainland.  Later I'll post another map of the whole country and discuss our options moving forward.

Losses for turn 1 are well within replacement levels, we're doing just fine on that front except for our aircraft which we can't currently replace.  We may receive Soviet jets but that's far off.  Right now air losses are permanent and there's gonna be a lot of them.

That's it for turn 1!  Our dear leader is surely pleased with progress so far.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 07:06:25 pm by Cthulhu »
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Teneb

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Re: TOAW 3 - Dear Leader Liberates Countrymen from Capitalist Oppression
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2015, 07:43:50 pm »

PTW
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Cthulhu

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Re: TOAW 3 - Dear Leader Liberates Countrymen from Capitalist Oppression
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2015, 10:13:16 pm »

TURN 2

The 5th division enters Seoul to encircle the defenders.  There's a little hiccup though.

===



A division-sized stack of enemy troops has set up on the bridge out of Seoul, holding open the main corridor of escape.  The bridge is still out so I anticipate major casualties nonetheless, but I can't push them off that hex without wasting too much time.  Instead we're going to attack the hex just north of it and see where those defenders go.  If they flee north then they'll be cornered, if they flee south then they can probably escape.  It's not a big deal, we'll have plenty more chances to deal with them.



They retreated south.  Nonetheless we've pinned about two divisions worth of RK troops in and around Seoul.  Now it's just a matter of mopping them up.  Once we've cleared them out and reorganized we'll take a step back and look at how we're gonna tackle the rest of the country.

===



The two major pockets of Seoul resistance have been digested without complications.  Supply and troop readiness is beginning to become an issue on the front lines; Seoul's infrastructure is completely destroyed with bridges and railroads out and refugees clogging the streets.  Our advance will probably slow down here to ensure we don't get ahead of ourselves.  The first US troops are probably going to be reaching us in the next couple turns and if we're strung out and weary we'll probably end up forced into a retreat.  The next step is to push what's left of the RK army out of Seoul and begin reorganizing and rotating our fresh troops into the front.  Infantry reinforcements continue to arrive by train, in this pic you can see that the RK division at Tonghae has also been wiped out by the newly-arrived 15th division.

===



Turn 2 ends with Seoul cleared out.  Most of the remaining enemy forces moved out to the south to regroup, leaving 3 infantry units at Puch'on to protect the Inch'on anchorage which is a supply source for the enemy.  We can't use it but we can deny it to the enemy.  That's a priority for the future but we need to start digging in.  US troops are moving north and we'll be meeting them next turn.  The easy part's over, now comes the real war.

===

[size=18]TURN 3 - PART 1[/size]

===



Turn 3 has been mostly a time for reorganization and consolidation after the mess of taking Seoul.  The eastern force has encircled a single infantry regiment in an unnamed town on the coast.  You can also see the first US troops in Chech'on.  We'll deal with them soon enough.  I haven't started fighting yet, we need to consider what we want to do first.

===

I'll give a summary of where we are so far and highlight possible avenues for our future strategy in a separate, alongside what actually happened.  That's on the way right now.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 11:09:20 pm by Cthulhu »
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Cthulhu

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Re: TOAW 3 - Dear Leader Liberates Countrymen from Capitalist Oppression
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2015, 12:06:38 am »


The dotted red line marks the original border between north and south Korea.  The orange and black line marks the current front.  We've made substantial inroads and I"m pretty happy with how the fight's going so far.  There's a gap in our front but the terrain there is so rough I'm not worried about it.  There's a few things we need to consider moving forward.

Spoiler: A tough nut to crack (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Yolo rush for Pusan (click to show/hide)



=========

Outside the eastern situation, we also need to consider our options on the main front.  Now that the US is moving in we may find ourselves defending against organized counterattacks.  For the end of turn 3 we can either dig in along the lines and wait to see what the enemy will do, or we can make some attacks and try to push them a little farther back.  Right now my vote is for digging in and hitting them with artillery where possible to increase attrition.  I'll wait to hear what other people suggest first though.  Turn 3 ends tomorrow.

If you think you know what we should do let me know, I'm taking all suggestions into consideration and I'm sure I haven't thought of everything.
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Re: TOAW 3 - Dear Leader Liberates Countrymen from Capitalist Oppression
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2015, 03:44:54 am »

I say keep advancing before the US truly arrives in big numbers - why let such numbers accumulate? Our Eastern divisions should go for the flanking option, doing as much damage as possible, trying for another encirclement, tough I would be less risky with that objective than you and aim at Chongju and the bridges near it.

Cthulhu

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Re: TOAW 3 - Dear Leader Liberates Countrymen from Capitalist Oppression
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2015, 06:31:55 am »

That's a good point, especially looking at where we've drawn the lines.  Occupying the forests around Ch'ungju means defensive bonuses; if the US gets them first then we'll have trouble pushing through, we may force ourselves to a standstill. 

Chongju is also a good spot to break supply.  That whole corridor is probably thick with enemy troops but there's only three paths the enemy can trace a supply route to the front.  If we blow the bridges at Andong and Chongju and occupy the town of Sangju then their supply lines are cut.  They can still move supply up but not as quickly or effectively.  I'll need to read up on exactly how supply lines work.
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Iituem

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Re: TOAW 3 - Dear Leader Liberates Countrymen from Capitalist Oppression
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2015, 07:10:39 am »

Agreed.  What do we have in terms of forward intelligence?  Have we got spies in south Korea?  If not, why not?  Can be put them there?  Men on enemy territory are an indisposable asset, if only to know where their troops currently are.
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