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[MorleyDev]

I think it used to be +4/+8 but the latest patch buffed it to +8/+32, guessing the wiki hasn't been updated yet.

[Kanil]

Yes, it's a current patch thing, not a 3.8 thing. It both added the trait that causes leaders not to count towards your leader cap, and also buffed the value of the resources from nothing traits.

[Telgin]

The mechanics don't bother me too much since the resource generating traits do at least give a tradeoff between hiring a leader who gives a useful bonus at the start of the game vs. one who's more powerful later on, but the exploit is definitely there for people who want to burn a little unity on it.

My major problem with it is the logic of it.  This represents one of your leaders owning several districts' worth of resource production, which they... just give to you?  I guess it could be assumed that you're paying for it with some unmodeled empire money as part of hiring them, but it still gets really messy with the distinction between public and private economy, which Stellaris doesn't pretend to model.  I don't really count the internal market as much of a model for it.

[pisskop]

Reddit's still protesting lol

Spoiler: screencap (click to show/hide)

The empire in question is in the single blue region, with zero hyperlanes connecting it.  and he is strong  3x my diplo weight, and with a tech advantage and huge fleet of some sort.

Is this normal behavior?  I feel like theyre some kind of quasi ascendant empire who isnt stagnant?

[Haspen]

This is special scripted? empire connected to rest of galaxy by a wormhole released by someone making a wrong choice during an event. It's basically Prikki-Ti, just without fanatical purifier flavor.

That's all I know

[MorleyDev]

Ah, those. Fun times. Basically just Prikki-Ti but instead of death they bring love (some death required).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

They're activated by being invaded by another empire as primitives, and they start with 6 populated Gaia Worlds, a fleet worth 70% the Naval Capacity of whoever activated them, and all the technology of their invader.  So basically they're a tall empire crammed into a single system, potentially spawning with the fleet of a wide empire.

[Robsoie]

Ah, those. Fun times. Basically just Prikki-Ti but instead of death they bring love (some death required).

[Lidku]

Anyone else just stopped playing Stellaris after Galactic Paragons and the leader cap thing? I didn't even buy it, but apparently the leader cap is just flat-on a part of the update. lol

I don't even see much point to this DLC, when internal politics in Stellaris are just surface-deep non-existent at this point still.

[Haspen]

They've overcapped presumably to fight the longstanding meta of 'send 10 science ships and find all the juicy archeology/anomaly/planet sites' in 20 years.

The unity penalties over the cap aren't that big, except, of course, in early game.

[Lidku]

I only ever rocked with 2 science ships ever since I've played Stellaris (one for archeology and one for surveying). The cap still gripes me because now certain leader types, such as Generals and Governors, are basically a waste of a slot now. You can't have multiple fleets... well you still can... but you'll have to stomach the XP penalty that will come with it.

[Culise]

I only ever rocked with 2 science ships ever since I've played Stellaris (one for archeology and one for surveying). The cap still gripes me because now certain leader types, such as Generals and Governors, are basically a waste of a slot now. You can't have multiple fleets... well you still can... but you'll have to stomach the XP penalty that will come with it.

Generals, I'll agree on, but not so much governors. A level 1 governor gives a flat +2% bonus to all resources on all planets in the sector and -2% to empire size cap. Start stacking on traits, and they're a pretty steady bonus to whichever sector they rule.  Industrialists are particularly nice for their sectors: another +5% bonus to resources at level 4 from the veteran trait, up to +15% food output, +20% slave output, +35% to industrial outputs (alloy, CG, or refineries), +15% to researcher output, or smaller bonuses across the board (+5% ruler, +10% specialist, +15% workers) depending on which traits they roll. Pioneers can pick up +45% to various raw resources with investment, and Visionaries provide not only bonuses to unity, but they have the chance to provide one of the few flat bonuses to Influence.  A high-level governor with decent traits is not only superior to a planetary designation, but stacks with that designation and all other bonuses you might have picked up.

I'd consider them more useful than Admirals, who are only good in times of war, as governor bonuses can feed into whatever goal you desire. Apart from the bare minimum to fill in whatever council slots absolutely mandate military leaders, admirals tend to be a distant third in priority for my play style.  If I can't afford them, I'll simply run fleets with no leaders and convert those bonus alloys into even more ships.

The biggest issue is the random nature of the level-up traits.  It can be moderately bothersome to have a sector of foundry worlds humming along only for the sector governor to end up being given the choice between something like food production, research, or trade.

[MorleyDev]

I usually only have a couple of Admiral fleets and a bunch of non-admiral fleets and that works fine. Although I could see them making Admirals behave kinda like Titans, giving the fleet they're in an aura of their effect rather than only applying to their fleet.

Although I play tall most of the time anyway, so never really even notice the leader cap and Stellaris has just been getting better and better for me since it does seem like the last few updates major of Stellaris have been trying to encourage a more tall-oriented playstyle whilst it used to be just plain inefficient compared to wide.

(Also for the leader cap you can go one or two over it without any real issue).

[MrRoboto75]

The only real issue is when an admiral dies/retires/gets elected and it fucks up your fleet limit.

I run three maybe four scientists and the leader limit hasn't really hurt me.  Isn't the penalty only -leader XP anyway?

[pisskop]

its a global penalty to leader xp gain, and a second global penalty to unity upkeep they can now cost other things with certain civics.

early game it might be useful to pay food/minerals/energy for leaders instead of unity and forcing more pop to work unity, but later on thats pretty much a nonpoint.



They clearly have to work out the leaders problem, but I see some potential in where theyre going. 

Im just spitballing here, but if they lock level 2 traits behind level 4 leaders, and kept the 'leaders under 4 dont count'.  They could force you to choose to upgrade low tier leaders.

Alternatively 'generic'' low level leaders, particularly governers and admirals could be autogenned and force-stuck into their holes.  You pay for the privilege or re-rolling them with a cooldown or to stick a 'real leader' into the slot.  these generic leaders could have more bad traits and less good ones, and be locked out of high tier skills as well.

Early game I find myself still producing 6-8 scientists, and with cloaking being a thing they arguably all still will have a use.  So far the ai just seems to stick it onto science vessals; I havent even bothered researching it since Im not sure the benefits cloaking will have on ai.  Hostile empires seem to send fleets 'on patrol' or in response to my own fleet movements they can see, so far.

[Telgin]

The only real issue is when an admiral dies/retires/gets elected and it fucks up your fleet limit.

I run three maybe four scientists and the leader limit hasn't really hurt me.  Isn't the penalty only -leader XP anyway?

They thankfully got rid of the command limit change, so this is much less of an issue.  It still makes the micromanager trait a fireable offense though.