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[Cruxador]

because I thought they'd get the pop ethic, not the parent ethics

Well, they might eventually but it would take time for the pops to subvert your puppet government. During that time, some number of them would surely be subverted.

[EuchreJack]

because I thought they'd get the pop ethic, not the parent ethics

Well, they might eventually but it would take time for the pops to subvert your puppet government. During that time, some number of them would surely be subverted.

It's more likely that the government ethic would outlast the general opinion of the people.  I even think there is some sort of cooldown so that to government doesn't immediately flip to the people's ethics.

As you are trying to get them to not be xenophobic, a cultural exchange/exchange of hostages in which you transfer to their planet one of your pops, maybe taking one of theirs in exchange, should greatly help them get over that "aliens are icky" thing.

[Karnewarrior]

I haven't had a single rebellion and my Xenophobe faction has been sitting at literally 0% support with hundreds of supporters for decades.

Honestly it would be better if the system worked such that pops would be more likely to migrate to worlds with a higher proportion of their ethics in the population. I think the reason I haven't had any revolts is because the hundreds of Xenophobic pops in my empire are relatively spread out, so they can't spawn anywhere and they can't gain enough of an advantage to pop on me.


On an unrelated note, the local Marauders finally decided to raid me while I was at war with the Spiritualist FE. They only had 13k fleetpower when my fleets are nearly scraping 100k now when healed and 20k when totally thrashed (even my corvettes have about 850 fleet power each!), so I wasn't too worried, but it moved from the mild amusement of Mike Tyson being threatened by a particularly pudgy child to outright laughter when the raiding fleet hopped into the same system as the Enigmatic Fortress.

Cue a small event saying that the raiders had been beaten back. The Solar Union of course took full credit for the Fortress' actions - I'll be happy to pay the Marauders a visit now that they're finally waking up, although I'd been waiting for a Great Khan to come around. Never did. Still, as funny as it was seeing the dorks yeet themselves, they're getting uppity. It's time to crush them... Just as soon as I ethics-shift a couple of my old enemies...

[Telgin]

I've never seen a rebellion trigger before, but aren't they triggered by low stability, not just faction happiness?  Faction happiness factors into it, but it seems like you almost have to try to get stability much below 50%.

Anyway, I beat the 10x crisis handily just now and am debating trying 25x, but I'm not sure I'm ready for it since I didn't get a very good chance to practice.  The Unbidden spawned and glitched, as things just do in Stellaris, and refused to expand past 1 additional system.  I did lose almost all of my 2 million strength fleet clearing out their system since so many fleets were stacked in it, but had all the time in the world to replace the ships, during which the Unbidden didn't replace many of their ships.  The second wave took them out with few losses.

I also had another frustrating bug that means I can win the game.  The War in Heaven triggered, and in 2487 it ended without my intervention.  Two pop up messages told me so, which was weird.  The victory screen tells me that the war is still going though, so there can be no victory.

And right after I got an insult from an empire with no name.

Boy I hope they have a long bugfix list in the May patch.

[LoSboccacc]

got fucked some more by this silly game, me and a federation ally started a preemptive strike on another fanatic purifier, but he had the staging world on their border, so while I did most of the lifting her enjoyed every single planet at the end of the war when we settled for the status quo

gotta love their way of handling hard issues, their answer is invariably "fuck it"

[forsaken1111]

got fucked some more by this silly game, me and a federation ally started a preemptive strike on another fanatic purifier, but he had the staging world on their border, so while I did most of the lifting her enjoyed every single planet at the end of the war when we settled for the status quo

gotta love their way of handling hard issues, their answer is invariably "fuck it"

Did you have claims on the systems? If you had the highest claim and it instead went to your ally then that may be a bug. It's supposed to go to whichever empire has the highest claim on the system.

[Rolan7]

Weird that systems turned over at the end of the war.  Sounds like you were using the Conquer CB against the purifiers instead of Containment, which I didn't remember was even an option.  Containment is a total war where you don't need claims, and you get the systems instantly as soon as you occupy them (fully!  So planets still have to be invaded).

Caveat that allies with claims will get the claimed systems instead.  Technically you can claim a system multiple times to "strengthen" the claim, but you're not allowed to do that mid-war to "yoink" systems.

[LoSboccacc]

I cannot make claims, probably due the pacifist ethic or them being driven exterminators.

[LoSboccacc]

also why imperialist, that live by early expansion, have the lowest starbase influence cost, while pacifists, that live by trade deals, have the highest influence cost to expansion?

the game right now seems to be pacifist - interesting and harder vs. imperialist - easy but boring - can't they figure out something a little better? I see why they need crisis to spice up the thing.

[Rolan7]

also why imperialist, that live by early expansion, have the lowest starbase influence cost, while pacifists, that live by trade deals, have the highest influence cost to expansion?

the game right now seems to be pacifist - interesting and harder vs. imperialist - easy but boring - can't they figure out something a little better? I see why they need crisis to spice up the thing.

You must be getting thrown off by the tradition modifiers to starbase influence cost.  The only ethic that affects it is Xenophobe.  Though authoritarians do get additional influence/month for a similar effect.

Pacifist Xenophobes can be a decent combination: faster initial expansion is always useful, and softens the downside of pacifism.  The combination allows the Inward Perfection civic which trades most diplomatic options for a stable state which grows pops quickly.

Pacifists can still make claims in a defensive war, and non-fanatical pacifists have the option of "liberation wars" which... are almost as good as conquering, in a way.  Even "status quo" forms a new state from the areas you occupied, and that state loves you and shares your ethics.  Likely to accept a vassalage/protectorate offer, or just be an ally.  For the purpose of cutting your enemies down to size, it's perfect.

I think you might be combining aspects of Miliitant, Xenophobic and maybe Authoritarian into that "imperialist" idea, but I like how the "nice" ethics work just fine with the "mean" ones.  Egalitarian Xenophobes are a cute combo - they believe all people are equal.  And happily enslave non-persons X_X

I don't know what the easier civics would be.  I find Egalitarianism great late-game because it makes unemployment a non-issue.  Spiritualists churn out unity and I think stability once they go psychic.  Militarists straight up shoot faster.  Xenophobes expand fast and can enslave.  Xenophiles get the trade bonus and save influence on treaties.  It's all pretty good... frankly most of the differences aren't that big, it's the policies like slavery and ascension perks that really make the difference.

I think Authoritarians kinda suck, but maybe I just have trouble playing it right.  In particular I think Authoritarian Xenophiles AKA "We want more slaves!!" didn't allow slavery, which was boring, just xenophiles with stratified economy.  I'm gonna guess that's the weakest combo.

[LoSboccacc]

yeah I meant imperialist as a play stile more than a specific combo.

some more examples from this game: after a couple more war I split the fanatic purifier enar to me, half was the status quo friendly empire, half was later conquered and vassalized by me for no reason at all.

I federated with the friendly empire, good. then went to my parent empire to get him into the federation, but no, he hated the gut off my vassal. fine, I left the federation, liberated the vassal, federated again with the dude below and then discovered dude below was vetoing me from joining with the parent civ. fine, I left that federation, waged a liberation war with a militarist on the other side, entered a federation with him and the liberated vassal. then went to the first liberated civ but no, now they hated the small ex vassal that was no biggie before. fine, left the other federation, joined the first liberated dude and then realize ex vassal + new liberated were still in a federation. so I went on  another war with the whole federation, vassallized the dude, freed him, and before I could send a federation request to the new liberated empire they decided to subjugated under another empire.

now it would have made for a great story, if it were not a multiplayer game. federating my neighborhood was the only way to stop my friend playing your bog standard imperialist, and while I was literally wrestling game mechanics and its -1000 modifiers with no logic behind, he was just gobbing up other empire capitals and their precious pops.

I managed somehow to maintain technical and naval parity, but when the border clashed I could only resist so far against his overwhelming economy - using carrier against his citadel, corvettes against his cruiser and battleship fleet, all the trick I could, but he could simply sit forever on the front spamming ships and I could not keep up losses on the front long enough for forcing a truce


now, I've done my fair share of mistakes, but most of them were just game mechanics being obtuse, and that's not a nice way to go.

[LoSboccacc]

playing in multiplayer to test out if a minmaxed xenophile could keep up with a determined exterminator

we maneuvered our empire strength for 75+ years, he working around an advanced start and the Prikki-Ti, me trying to get into a federation with aligned ethics and good strength

time for the showdown, and he came knocking at the federation door with 4 3k fleet. I dropped my 2 4.5k fleet to slow it down just after the first bottleneck, trying to maneuver around his main fleet.

meanwhile, the federated ai, including the dude that was being attacked:

https://imgur.com/a/l5YrcfH

I swear, this is why baddies are the only fun to play in stellaris, the ai is a complete and utter disaster

we had more than enough fleet and economy to at least push back and hold the front, instead I basically worked alone defending some rando AI which was completely passive, I could neither repair nor reinforce fleet at their shipyard, meanwhile the exterminator could just push trough, get bases and refit/reinforce, so by the end of the war he was completely stacked and ready, while I, defending was losing due attrition.

at some point I managed to get behind is main fleet, raced trough his system toward the core, just to split his attention, and the AI still did nothing to get back its systems.

some day ago there was a post about everyone playing xenophobes and having a blast. well, there you have it.

[Rolan7]

I have to admit, the ally AI is... frustrating at times, though it usually does a passable job in wars with foregone conclusions.  I suppose it's cowardly, but also likes to split fleets.  It follows one's fleets sometimes but not as much as one would like.

(Something I particularly don't like is, last I heard, vassals don't get the scaling handicap/bonus that most AI empires get as the game progresses.  One reason I always turn that option off for a chill coexistent lategame.  Like the Advanced Start Empires option (which happen anyway if a Lost Colony spawns but hey))

I dunno about baddies being the only fun ones to play - but I'm eyeing a hegemony as my next run, so I suppose I'll get the worst of both worlds

I will say that determined exterminators, ravenous devourers, and fanatic purifiers are simply OP (particularly in human hands).  They're not balanced for multiplayer and I would have refused that match.  As far as I can tell they're the equivalent of covering a Simcity map in disasters to relax.  A little break from taking the game seriously.  As AI they serve as dangerous villains who you can conquer with no influence cost (and make friends by rivaling).
I've also heard that the Scion origin is dramatically OP.  Lots of boons, including ships, and a useful CB.

I'd compare with the origin where your homeworld blows up, which is the only option where the devs actually mention that it's imba...  Except that my friend says there's a pro strat for wiping out the galaxy *before the planet blows up* so I don't know if it's UP or OP.  Them mineral bonuses make a difference, I guess (I honestly can't remember the cheese).

[LoSboccacc]

>  are simply OP (particularly in human hands).

yeah we were testing specifically for that in a multiplayer game. to be honest my minmaxed xenophile, egalitarian militaristic empire could be strong enough to stall them alone, with the federation allies following the "take point" commands we could have pushed back on my bro machine empire. I had about 9k fleet, the exterminator had 10k fleet, there was a reinforcement race of course, but the ai had 7k fleet parked at all time and with that we could have easily cascaded into a solid push.

but everything in stellaris works the opposite of what a game should do: because I was in allied territory I couldn't easily upgrade my ship, while the advancing exterminator could use the conquered station for repairs and upgrades. imagine losing a defensive war to attrition 

[Rolan7]

yeah we were testing specifically for that in a multiplayer game. to be honest my minmaxed xenophile, egalitarian militaristic empire could be strong enough to stall them alone, with the federation allies following the "take point" commands we could have pushed back on my bro machine empire. I had about 9k fleet, the exterminator had 10k fleet, there was a reinforcement race of course, but the ai had 7k fleet parked at all time and with that we could have easily cascaded into a solid push.

I honestly don't know much about the multiplayer balance because my friends all yarhar'd, and we never had any luck with our legitimate copies of Crusader Kings 2 despite many attempts.  So many desyncs.

I am very aware of the "balanced for multiplayer meme" though, despite them having no direct experience but it's funny.

but everything in stellaris works the opposite of what a game should do: because I was in allied territory I couldn't easily upgrade my ship, while the advancing exterminator could use the conquered station for repairs and upgrades. imagine losing a defensive war to attrition 

Please stop bully one of my favorite games >:
JK, thank you for invigorating the thread!

Not so long ago, you could only rival neighbors, that sucked.  Glad that's past.
I made the Ithkul (Master of Orion 3: Disappointment at Orion) a force-spawn, using the infested fox funguspop.  Having a nice angry ball in the corner brings everyone together, particularly since it either blobs (rare) or more often just reeeees.  And hey, it's free real estate 

I like filling the galaxy with states I played once, then set to autospawn - they tend to be right assholes, unsurprisingly.  And others like the Ithkul I created then never played.
I wonder if they'll ever balance Miners Guilds/Rock Breakers to be less broken.