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[Criptfeind]

Biological is currently the strongest and psi is currently the weakest. But bio requires a lot of micromanagement that won't be necessary or possible in the upcoming economy, which to me means they'll either be really really strong, or you'll constantly be screwed by how jobs and migration and all that stuff works and they'll suck.

Funnily enough I'm not sure that bio will actually mesh that well with Xenocapability, with bio you can already specialize your dudes pretty well, +2 trait points might be excessive unless you're trying to make an über generalist. And a bunch of randomized traits is going to weaken your specialization most likely. If there's some even specialized combos that need +2 points though it might be good.

[Teneb]

Biological is currently the strongest and psi is currently the weakest. But bio requires a lot of micromanagement that won't be necessary or possible in the upcoming economy, which to me means they'll either be really really strong, or you'll constantly be screwed by how jobs and migration and all that stuff works and they'll suck.

And that is what I get for talking about meta when I haven't played the game properly in a while!

[Criptfeind]

Honestly it's been that way for a long time (so I'm not sure why anyone would have ever said Psi was the strongest, but I'd be interested in knowing why) at one point synth was the best (I did a lot of very boring posts on this matter in this thread a while ago) but bio got buffed and synth got bugfixed or something so now bio is pretty clearly the bestest. Psi always had much weaker bonuses over all. A couple of minor bonuses to unity and research can't stack up to synth and ascended bio traits that give massive bonuses to everything. In theory some of the shroud stuff is good but that's super random and in my experience it's really rare to get the good stuff, and the basic stuff like targeting, jump and shields aren't worth it.

Imo from a mechanical perspective the big benefit of psi is you don't have to dump a ton of research into it, you just get it for free once you take the perk. Also the chosen one is clearly the coolest frood.

[Teneb]

Honestly it's been that way for a long time (so I'm not sure why anyone would have ever said Psi was the strongest, but I'd be interested in knowing why) at one point synth was the best (I did a lot of very boring posts on this matter in this thread a while ago) but bio got buffed and synth got bugfixed or something so now bio is pretty clearly the bestest. Psi always had much weaker bonuses over all. A couple of minor bonuses to unity and research can't stack up to synth and ascended bio traits that give massive bonuses to everything. In theory some of the shroud stuff is good but that's super random and in my experience it's really rare to get the good stuff, and the basic stuff like targeting, jump and shields aren't worth it.

Imo from a mechanical perspective the big benefit of psi is you don't have to dump a ton of research into it, you just get it for free once you take the perk. Also the chosen one is clearly the coolest frood.

I was basing it off when I last played the game extensively... which was when ascencions were added and psi has the most stuff going for it. Since then I've only done really short sessions and haven't gotten to ascension stuff again. Hence me speaking out of my backside.

[Telgin]

Funny, I used to go bio ascension all of the time for flavor reasons, but i don't think I ever used it properly.  I usually just slapped Erudite and Robust (I think that was the advanced trait) on all of my pops, which was nice for the various +5% bonuses, but it takes two ascension perks to get there and a single perk point into the synth ascension path gives you cybernetics that almost match it.

The real strength with bio ascension was to make specialized pops, from what I gather, so your miners, energy producers and so on do even better than a flat +5% or +10% bonus would give.  That makes sense, I suppose.

[Teneb]

I could never figure out how to genemod specific pops on planets, only all of them.

[Grim Portent]

I could never figure out how to genemod specific pops on planets, only all of them.

That was basically what you did as I recall. I used to make a planet do one thing and just stack every multiplier onto it I could, mineral planets that only produced minerals and only had mineral making pops on them, science planets with all science pops and so on. You lost out on some tile bonuses, but generally swamped them out on stacking % bonuses.

EDIT: Not played enough Stellaris since early after the machine empires came out, so not sure how it's done these days mind you.

[Telgin]

I'm not actually sure that you can target individual pops, but I believe it works best if you already have a diverse population where you can do it by species.  So, if you've already got a Strong species, you make them Very Strong and Erudite or whatever and plop them down on a mine.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Biological is currently the strongest and psi is currently the weakest. But bio requires a lot of micromanagement that won't be necessary or possible in the upcoming economy, which to me means they'll either be really really strong, or you'll constantly be screwed by how jobs and migration and all that stuff works and they'll suck.

Funnily enough I'm not sure that bio will actually mesh that well with Xenocapability, with bio you can already specialize your dudes pretty well, +2 trait points might be excessive unless you're trying to make an über generalist. And a bunch of randomized traits is going to weaken your specialization most likely. If there's some even specialized combos that need +2 points though it might be good.

It's not +2 trait points, it's +2 trait picks.  Admittedly, the point still stands.

[Criptfeind]

Yeah, I thought so too, and originally wrote it as picks. But going back to the source, the thing itself actually says "points". Maybe it says picks elsewhere?



We also see that a hybrid species has 6 picks in another image, but it's unclear if that represents a permanent increase to picks that you can then use when modding them, or if it's like the other event trait gains that let you go over the pick limit but you don't gain the pick slots when modding.

[Trekkin]

Or maybe the tooltip is just wrong? I'm not being facetious here; we know all the numbers and descriptions are still in flux, so it's entirely possible that they meant picks.

[Loud Whispers]

Honestly it's been that way for a long time (so I'm not sure why anyone would have ever said Psi was the strongest, but I'd be interested in knowing why) at one point synth was the best (I did a lot of very boring posts on this matter in this thread a while ago) but bio got buffed and synth got bugfixed or something so now bio is pretty clearly the bestest. Psi always had much weaker bonuses over all. A couple of minor bonuses to unity and research can't stack up to synth and ascended bio traits that give massive bonuses to everything. In theory some of the shroud stuff is good but that's super random and in my experience it's really rare to get the good stuff, and the basic stuff like targeting, jump and shields aren't worth it.

Imo from a mechanical perspective the big benefit of psi is you don't have to dump a ton of research into it, you just get it for free once you take the perk. Also the chosen one is clearly the coolest frood.

Psi lets you suicide bomb the galaxy by summoning the end. If you manage to keep a 25 size gaia holy world pristine and clean you can reset the galaxy for lols with a good chance of rebuilding in time to end the end

[umiman]

Honestly it's been that way for a long time (so I'm not sure why anyone would have ever said Psi was the strongest, but I'd be interested in knowing why) at one point synth was the best (I did a lot of very boring posts on this matter in this thread a while ago) but bio got buffed and synth got bugfixed or something so now bio is pretty clearly the bestest. Psi always had much weaker bonuses over all. A couple of minor bonuses to unity and research can't stack up to synth and ascended bio traits that give massive bonuses to everything. In theory some of the shroud stuff is good but that's super random and in my experience it's really rare to get the good stuff, and the basic stuff like targeting, jump and shields aren't worth it.

Imo from a mechanical perspective the big benefit of psi is you don't have to dump a ton of research into it, you just get it for free once you take the perk. Also the chosen one is clearly the coolest frood.

Psi lets you suicide bomb the galaxy by summoning the end. If you manage to keep a 25 size gaia holy world pristine and clean you can reset the galaxy for lols with a good chance of rebuilding in time to end the end

Doesn't it guarantee you a "victory" because they always save you for last?

So Psi basically means you are guaranteed to win.

Not that losing is particularly easy but you know... in multiplayer this is a pretty important distinction.

[Loud Whispers]

I think the end cycle event is disabled for MP without mods

[ZeroGravitas]

Honestly it's been that way for a long time (so I'm not sure why anyone would have ever said Psi was the strongest, but I'd be interested in knowing why) at one point synth was the best (I did a lot of very boring posts on this matter in this thread a while ago) but bio got buffed and synth got bugfixed or something so now bio is pretty clearly the bestest. Psi always had much weaker bonuses over all. A couple of minor bonuses to unity and research can't stack up to synth and ascended bio traits that give massive bonuses to everything. In theory some of the shroud stuff is good but that's super random and in my experience it's really rare to get the good stuff, and the basic stuff like targeting, jump and shields aren't worth it.

Imo from a mechanical perspective the big benefit of psi is you don't have to dump a ton of research into it, you just get it for free once you take the perk. Also the chosen one is clearly the coolest frood.

Psi lets you suicide bomb the galaxy by summoning the end. If you manage to keep a 25 size gaia holy world pristine and clean you can reset the galaxy for lols with a good chance of rebuilding in time to end the end

Doesn't it guarantee you a "victory" because they always save you for last?

So Psi basically means you are guaranteed to win.

Not that losing is particularly easy but you know... in multiplayer this is a pretty important distinction.

Even if you can do it in MP, it would be trivial for someone to pick you off before the end of cycle wipes everyone else out.