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[forsaken1111]

I’m warming up to that change, personally.
Just having smaller fleets being more viable against larger ones to the point of no longer being “literal suicide charge” and making the game less about having a bigger doomstack seems like it could really help.

I still wish they could have found a less... gamey way to accomplish if, but the disparity bonus seems like it’ll be a net boon to the game.

The force disparity change is just one alteration. There are now maximum fleet sizes which means you have to make multiple fleets and more than a single admiral. There are ship disengagements on critical damage now, where ships will sometimes disengage from combat rather than be destroyed meaning it won't always come down to one all-or-nothing battle and ships will be able to limp away for repair more often. There is war weariness that mounts on losses, which could cause a larger aggressor to halt a war due to the civil and economic penalties before he has achieved total victory. A lot of alteration is going into the 2.0 update to counteract the doomstack problem and some other problems.

Is it solely a rate-of-fire boost? Why not just an accuracy boost, if meant to represent a target-rich environment?

I'm highly interested in anything that moves us on from the current doomstack situation.

Either one would accomplish the same thing. More bullets or more accurate bullets both result in more damage done. Some weapons in stellaris are perfectly accurate though, so you can't boost their accuracy beyond 100% thus more rate of fire is the answer.

[Dunamisdeos]

That's logical if you want to just increase the effectiveness of small fleets vs large, but not if you want to simulate a target-rich environment.

I'm still in favor of that change, though. I wonder if say, two people have 100k fleets, and one guy breaks his up into 10x 10k fleets, would it be a significant bonus?

[ZeroGravitas]

Is it solely a rate-of-fire boost? Why not just an accuracy boost, if meant to represent a target-rich environment?

I'm highly interested in anything that moves us on from the current doomstack situation.

oh my god this topic was done to death pages ago

1. it's just rate of fire, because ROF scales up no matter what while accuracy doesn't (once you hit all your shots, more accuracy doesn't do anything)
2. it doesn't affect doomstacks at all, because the bonus isn't going to ever mean your doomstack will lose a fight it would otherwise win. and it relates to the total combat size on both sides of a battle, not the size of any particular stack.
3. the point of the change is that it will... somehow... make wars of attrition slightly more viable, where relative productive capacity will matter more because the larger side will take slightly more casualties, so it will arguably be more viable to fight lots of short battles where you retreat after inflicting casualties but before your smaller is completely destroyed.

personally i think it is a bunch of bullshit that will have no real effect on the game, but we'll see what happens. too much is changing to predict anything at this point.

[ZeroGravitas]

That's logical if you want to just increase the effectiveness of small fleets vs large, but not if you want to simulate a target-rich environment.

stellaris isn't trying to simulate anything. it's just a space opera war game with hand-waving where necessary for the sake of "balance."

I'm still in favor of that change, though. I wonder if say, two people have 100k fleets, and one guy breaks his up into 10x 10k fleets, would it be a significant bonus?

there would be 0 bonus because it works based on total ships engaged. nothing to do with individual fleet sizes at all.

[Draignean]

That's logical if you want to just increase the effectiveness of small fleets vs large, but not if you want to simulate a target-rich environment.

I'm still in favor of that change, though. I wonder if say, two people have 100k fleets, and one guy breaks his up into 10x 10k fleets, would it be a significant bonus?

Bah, that's my least favorite change of the lot. I think it's a change to fire-rate so they didn't have to do anything janky with battles containing more than 2 empires, but I think the actual number of fleets engaged is inconsequential.

I'd have greatly preferred that small fleets gained advantages in jump time and somesuch to encourage raiding, rather than a bonus to fire-rate so that they can inflict (slightly) added casualties against real fleets.

[ZeroGravitas]

I'd have greatly preferred that small fleets gained advantages in jump time and somesuch to encourage raiding,

i'm pretty sure they also did this

although static defenses will also block this now, because you have to actually transit each system in real space. if you want to get from A to B to C, you start at the hyperlane gate that goes A-B, then you have to physically cross B to get to the B-C gate. no more just popping into B and not moving while your FTL drive recharges.

[Criptfeind]

All the other changes to try to reduce the current prevalence of the fact that wars are mostly decided in a single battle where the slightly superior force gets an absolutely crushing victory sound fine. I'm super not a fan of just the flat bonus upgrade. It feels like it could have achieved in much more other interesting ways, and indeed they are trying to achieve it in other ways. Such a bandaid situation is boring and silly.

oh my god this topic was done to death pages ago

If you hate talking about stellaris so much, one wonders why you keep coming back to the one thread out of thousands on bay12 dedicated to talking about stellaris.

[forsaken1111]

That's logical if you want to just increase the effectiveness of small fleets vs large, but not if you want to simulate a target-rich environment.

I'm still in favor of that change, though. I wonder if say, two people have 100k fleets, and one guy breaks his up into 10x 10k fleets, would it be a significant bonus?

It uses total fleet power, so there would be no change based on number of fleets. The bonus recalculates over time too, so if you get reinforcements to bring you to parity then you lose that bonus.

As I said, certainly it would be logical to improve accuracy but some weapons like arc emitters wouldn't get a benefit from +acc because they're already perfectly accurate. They could have just done a raw damage boost or a rate of fire boost, any of those accomplish what they wanted which was to simulate just a bit more damage being put out from the underdog. The bonus is still very minor.

[ZeroGravitas]

If you hate talking about stellaris so much, one wonders why you keep coming back to the one thread out of thousands on bay12 dedicated to talking about stellaris.

hate talking about stellaris? what are you talking about

i'm just saying the same discussion already happened, and the same misconceptions keep coming up

[forsaken1111]

If you hate talking about stellaris so much, one wonders why you keep coming back to the one thread out of thousands on bay12 dedicated to talking about stellaris.

hate talking about stellaris? what are you talking about

i'm just saying the same discussion already happened, and the same misconceptions keep coming up

Not everyone reads every page. Be patient and correct them when they come up.

[Criptfeind]

Or ignore them, that's also perfectly acceptable. Acting exasperated that people would dare to talk about things that you've already talked about, or that you're not interested in, that's just being a dick. This is the Stellaris thread, not the "Things ZeroGravitas wants to talk about in Stellaris" thread.

[Dorsidwarf]

I think there's a mod kicking around somewhere which implements supply lines for fleets, which if implemented fleshed out in an actual update would be a much more interesting way to challenge the authority of a doomstack - wolfpack their supply ships and they get debuffs for "everyone is starving and there are no spare parts left"

[Karnewarrior]

I think there's a mod kicking around somewhere which implements supply lines for fleets, which if implemented fleshed out in an actual update would be a much more interesting way to challenge the authority of a doomstack - wolfpack their supply ships and they get debuffs for "everyone is starving and there are no spare parts left"

Break the supply line and ships fight weaker and weaker, and at a certain point either emergency warp away and become pirates or just go derelict as food runs out completely and the crews starve/run out of batteries.

Yeah, that'd be interesting. Might not stop the doomstack from just slowly domming each planet individually with a corps of landing soldiers, but...

[Retropunch]

Supply lines would really, really help mitigate doomstacks. You'd end up having to split your fleet up into assaulting fleets and those protecting supply lines as well. It might open up space for more tactics as well - having a fast fleet that you could deploy to tackle supply ships whilst having another tanking force distracting the main enemy fleet.

I fall in and out of enjoying Stellaris, but having something like that could make it an interesting interstellar war simulator, if a bit bland as a 4x.

[Dunamisdeos]

I think there's a mod kicking around somewhere which implements supply lines for fleets, which if implemented fleshed out in an actual update would be a much more interesting way to challenge the authority of a doomstack - wolfpack their supply ships and they get debuffs for "everyone is starving and there are no spare parts left"

I've seen those, the biggest one i saw implements a slight damage-over-time effect for fleets as well as a debuff. Simulates a lack of materials for repair and difficulty supplying fleets far from home.