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[Teneb]

Alternatively, it's taking longer that they thought to add stuff so they're delaying while they work stuff out.

Not saying that's happening but it's not a dichotomy like you implied.

I definitely had that line of thought for the first DLC, and I'd have kept thinking that if they showed any indication that they were working on actual mechanics. The first DLC was very, very story heavy, so I thought that might be because programming resources were working on mechanics. So far though, we've had nothing to indicate that - I've not even heard them speak about trade, espionage, actual characters etc.

I don't completely rule it out, it just seems very, very unlikely we're going to see any major developments past new content for what we've got.

They did make a new, apparently better, internal politics system for free. That takes work. My guess is the DLC is there to cover the costs of the free patch stuff.

[Retropunch]

They did make a new, apparently better, internal politics system for free. That takes work. My guess is the DLC is there to cover the costs of the free patch stuff.

It's just a few new options on the old one really. They've condensed factions into something more reasonable and given us a few new ethics options, along with another mineral cost for keeping pops happy.

I'm sure it'll be an improvement, but I don't think the outcome will really effect game play much. From what it looks like from the blog, you'll need to spend a bit more time balancing out your ethics to match your factions and spend a bit of your mineral income on it.

My problem is that there are HUGE areas that they haven't even touched which are pretty much standard across 4x, whilst they keep just iterating on the same stuff they've already got.

[Cruxador]

They did make a new, apparently better, internal politics system for free. That takes work. My guess is the DLC is there to cover the costs of the free patch stuff.

It's just a few new options on the old one really. They've condensed factions into something more reasonable and given us a few new ethics options, along with another mineral cost for keeping pops happy.

I'm sure it'll be an improvement, but I don't think the outcome will really effect game play much. From what it looks like from the blog, you'll need to spend a bit more time balancing out your ethics to match your factions and spend a bit of your mineral income on it.

My problem is that there are HUGE areas that they haven't even touched which are pretty much standard across 4x, whilst they keep just iterating on the same stuff they've already got.

Well, the stuff they've got started out kind of flawed. I think it's better to get it good before moving on to other things. Just because they haven't done anything big yet doesn't mean they never will. There's a reason that a lot of people recommend waiting a year or two before buying into Paradox releases, after all.

[Wiles]

I definitely had that line of thought for the first DLC, and I'd have kept thinking that if they showed any indication that they were working on actual mechanics. The first DLC was very, very story heavy, so I thought that might be because programming resources were working on mechanics. So far though, we've had nothing to indicate that - I've not even heard them speak about trade, espionage, actual characters etc.

I don't completely rule it out, it just seems very, very unlikely we're going to see any major developments past new content for what we've got.

I think they have talked about revamping the trade system, even to the extent of possibly adding trade vessels. I don't think we'll ever see something like Distant Worlds though (not that I would want something so convoluted, but a some complications would be nice).

I don't think the addition of a more complicated character system would add much of value to the game. CKII in space would be cool, but Stellaris is not that.

I do hope they add espionage like you mentioned though, and a more interesting diplomacy system in general.

[Cruxador]

I don't think the addition of a more complicated character system would add much of value to the game. CKII in space would be cool, but Stellaris is not that.

That seems like a false dichotomy to me. Is Stellaris "Victoria in Space" because it has pops?

[Wiles]

All I was trying to express was that Stellaris is not a game with a huge emphasis on characters and I feel that adding more depth to the character system would be a waste of resources because it wouldn't add much of value to the game.

[Sirus]

I would prefer a bit more depth, though. Not necessarily CKII-levels of character depth, but some additional traits would be nice.

[Descan]

I would prefer if there was SOME persistence in, maybe not characters, but characterization? It feels weird to go from, for example, a scientific bureaucracy to a hereditary despotic empire without any indication of where the hell the royal line came from?

[Retropunch]

Yeah it definitely doesn't need CK2 level of characterisation, but it needs more than them just basically being movable stat boosts. Giving them basic ambitions and a level of happiness would go a long way to making your civ feel more alive.

Well, the stuff they've got started out kind of flawed. I think it's better to get it good before moving on to other things. Just because they haven't done anything big yet doesn't mean they never will. There's a reason that a lot of people recommend waiting a year or two before buying into Paradox releases, after all.

The problem is exactly that - they're adding new stuff in rather than dealing with what they've already got in place. They've got characters, trade and diplomacy in, but they've just not done anything meaningful with them - instead they're adding stuff like artisans and mega-structures that weren't ever really 'needed'.

[forsaken1111]

I think they're doing pretty well myself. With patches 1.1 and 1.2 they fixed up a lot of outstanding mechanical issues and properly implemented their vision for slavery mechanics/factions. They touched up wargoals and warscore problems.

1.3 brought Leviathans and Enclaves as well as a new victory condition and further balance tuning.

1.4 fixed evasion exploits and finally fixed sectors. Seems like the game is where they want it now, so they're working on a fairly major political rework.

In 1.5 they are changing the way the ethics system works is not a simple tweak, they're putting in an entirely new system for it along with factions for ethics and policies. They're also adding a second major system with the ascension perks and Traditions. They're also adding in unrest on planets to further expand the political model, and a new avenue of internal development for non-expansionist empires in that you can build orbital habitats and eventually megastructures.

[Puzzlemaker]

Yeah, they are making progress and the game is growing.  Once 1.5 drops and they hammer out the new faction and ethics system, it should allow for much better espionage gameplay, probably in the next patch/DLC.  I hope the next patch (Or maybe the one after the next) will revamp the traits system, making them change gameplay much more and allow traits to give specific government types, etc.

[Descan]

I think the next one will probably be character/civil-life/that-kind-of-thing focused*, because a) spies, civilian traders, and Leaders all can fit or do fit under that description, and b) those three things seem to be the thing most people are going "god damn it paradox" about.

*Bringing the world to life by adding in autonomous systems and the ability to influence other empires non-diplomatically and non-militarily. I just hope they do espionage correctly, as in not just another ticking timer that drains some resource and gives you some events every so often before BING fries are done. Knowing paradox, that's exactly how they'll do it though.

[Wiles]

Come to think of it I don't recall playing a 4x game with an interesting espionage system. Are there any games that get that aspect right?

[Sirus]

Distant Worlds, maybe. You could send agents to cause all sorts of mischief and gather information. Of course, you could also keep them home to try and prevent foreign agents from doing the same to you. You couldn't just "build" them or anything, they just sort of randomly appeared based on how good at espionage your race was.

[Puzzlemaker]

Personally I think the espionage system should tie in strongly with factions, via supporting or subverting enemy empires factions.  Strong support within an empires faction would let you gather Intel about their fleet, etc.  Maybe even fund a rebellion or whatnot.  It's what I am looking forward to, at least... proxy wars for everyone!