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[Iceblaster]

Honestly? I think you're just arguing just to argue. You're looking way too into this stuff. Making a big deal out of literally nothing. They probably could've done nothing and just left Fallen Empires like they were originally. Is that better?

They clearly didn't make them the way they wanted to, believe they are a detriment to the gameplay, so are now backpedaling to try to make them meaningful in any small way.

Where did the dev team say this? I don't want any 'look at how they are' bullshit. Where did any of the dev team say this. I'm not fanboying, I'm just annoyed when people make criticisms based on 'he said she said' without any evidence or situations where they've said it.

[Neonivek]

Don't need DLC?

Sounds silly but companies KNOW this is exactly what happens with DLC.

People have a compulsive need to have a complete product...

It is why... Crusader Kings 2 makes it VERY VERY known that you do not have the finished game. Instead of making it... less obvious

Where did the dev team say this? I don't want any 'look at how they are' bullshit. Where did any of the dev team say this. I'm not fanboying, I'm just annoyed when people make criticisms based on 'he said she said' without any evidence or situations where they've said it.

Man... because Dev teams are so transparent and honest!

[Iceblaster]

You made that statement very confidentially. They clearly thought Fallen Empires are so detrimental to gameplay they decided to just make token efforts in a DLC not related to them to make the fanbase happy.

Am I wrong?

[Neonivek]

You made that statement very confidentially. They clearly didn't think Fallen Empires are so detrimental to gameplay they decided to just make token efforts in a DLC not related to them to make the fanbase happy.

Am I wrong?

The DLC is directly related to them. Leviathan is its marketing name... mostly because that one feature is so scant in it of itself.

The DLC is them trying to prop up their front loaded gameplay.

[Ultimuh]

I for one am happy for that DLC.
The plantoid pack too, even if it didn't have any actual gameplay elements.
And I am exited to see what they will come up with next.
As long as I can afford to buy other things too of course.

[Neonivek]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Which of course ties into why Paradox has such problems with their DLC and their gameplay... And what the DLC often props up.

To admit Paradox isn't the only company that tries to prop up missing gameplay features, glitches, bugs, and issues with paid DLC...

Though they are the most blatant and transparent when they do.

Cheese DLC anyone?

Because everyone is willing to forgive everything they do and praise them for when they do release this DLC... So they try less... and less... and less...

So just you wait for the Stellaris DLC! just you wait!

*flies off on a broomstick*

[Iceblaster]

You made that statement very confidentially. They clearly didn't think Fallen Empires are so detrimental to gameplay they decided to just make token efforts in a DLC not related to them to make the fanbase happy.

Am I wrong?

The DLC is directly related to them. Leviathan is its marketing name... mostly because that one feature is so scant in it of itself.

The DLC is them trying to prop up their front loaded gameplay.

Well, that's beside the point. Was I wrong in the assumption you knew that the dev team thought fallen empires were detrimental to gameplay. Or am I painting the wrong picture? Because honestly, I'm no there to antagonize anyone. I just hate it when someone decides to spend so much time criticizing something without any reason for me, a bystander, to change my opinion. A simple link to a statement or twitter message would at least give me a chance to see if I'm wrong or right in believing the Leviathan DLC is horrible or not.

Which of course ties into why Paradox has such problems with their DLC and their gameplay... And what the DLC often props up.

To admit Paradox isn't the only company that tries to prop up missing gameplay features, glitches, bugs, and issues with paid DLC...

Though they are the most blatant and transparent when they do.

Cheese DLC anyone?

Sooo. When you were playing let's say... The Sims. Did you buy any of the expansions that came out? Because buying any of those is basically saying 'we want unfinished games! these features could have been out in the start!'

I realize it doesn't excuse the DLC policy, but honestly IMO, Expansion packs and DLC are one in the same. Both add content and cost additional money. Some should've been in from the start, others are stuff that I would've never thought could be fun. Hating DLC just to hate DLC is a bit harsh tbh.

[Neonivek]

Meh sorry guys I was in an exceptionally bad mood.

When you were playing let's say... The Sims.

I am an expert on The Sims... You do NOT want to go there.

[Iceblaster]

No harm intended in anything I said. Just was trying to see why you think that way. Apologies if it came out that way.

[Neonivek]

No harm intended in anything I said. Just was trying to see why you think that way. Apologies if it came out that way.

I know that I am annoying people big time.

I know I typically don't trust developers own words because... well... they are "Team players". Yet people are still into stellaris right now.

I typically try to filter my... extreme dislike of some business practices... Giving less game for more money.

[Iceblaster]

Honestly, I can't really say stuff about the earlier games, but basically every paradox game never feels quite finished but not because they're intentionally leaving stuff out for DLC/Expansions. Because if they spent more dev time putting those features into the base game, the cost would be ridiculous and would take forever to get out. That may be preferable to some, but honestly for me? I couldn't care any less for the most part. They put out Stellaris, realized they did some stuff wrong and spend quite a bit of dev time soley on free patches before working on a proper expansion. Unless it was to go the way of HoI4 and get delayed a bunch, getting Stellaris out so they can continue to fund it and their other games' development was better than holding off IMO.

But then again, I'm probably just too complacent for my own good :v

[Neonivek]

Not everything that can be added to a game is a missing feature or intentionally left out.

It just matters if the game is a solid experience on its own without any odd gaps.

I get annoyed when people proclaim every feature as if it was missing... even if it was only in expansion content in previous games.

And paradox gets my ire more because they make games I actually play.

Unlike EA who lost my complete faith in a long time ago...

[Iceblaster]

Ah. Yeah, I mean. Stellaris was pretty fun when it first came out. Watched the pre-release stuff on youtube. I liked what I saw. Yeah, there were flaws but overall it looked like a pretty fun game. And it was. Mods did fix things when they came around, add stuff, etc. But even without those, it still was a fun experience. YMMV, as always but my point doesn't change.

[Neonivek]

Ah. Yeah, I mean. Stellaris was pretty fun when it first came out. Watched the pre-release stuff on youtube. I liked what I saw. Yeah, there were flaws but overall it looked like a pretty fun game. And it was. Mods did fix things when they came around, add stuff, etc. But even without those, it still was a fun experience. YMMV, as always but my point doesn't change.

Stellaris is one of the best 4x games of its type (Space) ever made.

But that only kind of highlights how poor the showing has been.

[Iceblaster]

Never really been into many 4x games, sooo. I got nothing on that front. Only thing I can really say is that the grand strategy genre is a bit dry at the time anyway. Probably won't grow, so even if you hate the practices, it's pretty hard to really vote with  your wallet if you still want to play grand strategy games.