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[forsaken1111]

Fair enough, I suppose. I find the warfare aspect far more interesting as a gameplay mechanic than queuing up production orders in a city

[Retropunch]

No, I'm saying they're equally uncomplicated.

Each to their own, but I disagree - perhaps not in Civ itself (I'm not a big civ player) but in many 4x games I've found the military path quite interesting late game. In one of my recent Stellaris games I over reached, and ended up not being able to get my ships back quickly enough to stop another race smashing through a large portion of my space. In another Endless Space game I ended up just getting hammered in a few unlucky battles which meant that I had to rethink.

For econ/tech endings you can basically just sit and wait till you win in a lot of cases.

[forsaken1111]

No, I'm saying they're equally uncomplicated.

Each to their own, but I disagree - perhaps not in Civ itself (I'm not a big civ player) but in many 4x games I've found the military path quite interesting late game. In one of my recent Stellaris games I over reached, and ended up not being able to get my ships back quickly enough to stop another race smashing through a large portion of my space. In another Endless Space game I ended up just getting hammered in a few unlucky battles which meant that I had to rethink.

For econ/tech endings you can basically just sit and wait till you win in a lot of cases.

yeah. I've been trying to come up with some way to make a science victory condition interesting from a mechanical perspective. So far I have:

Societal issues aka "We don't want to upload!" factions breaking out, traditionalist or anti-progress cults springing up causing mass riots and mayhem. Think of a process like Westernizing in EU4, but more focused on factions resisting the unchecked progress of science.

Special projects/sites. You have to test this new transcendence device after all. How? Send monkeys! or whatever. Test phases that require player intervention and interaction, possible wacky or serious outcomes. Maybe sidegrade technologies that come from increased understanding, or deadly nanoplagues from failures. Make it risky. Require these tests to happen under specific conditions, or require specific resources/sites so you have a reason to go take some specific land/planet/system instead of sitting there watching a resource counter climb.

[LoSboccacc]

must have many outcomes, some unpredictable, or it'd get stale fast, like the shogun tw civil war event

[forsaken1111]

must have many outcomes, some unpredictable, or it'd get stale fast, like the shogun tw civil war event

Yep. Like I said, just brainstorming right now. There are undoubtedly other/better ways. The point is to introduce some player choice and agency in the process rather than watching a turn timer tick down.

[Retropunch]

yeah. I've been trying to come up with some way to make a science victory condition interesting from a mechanical perspective.

All good ideas - I feel that scientific victories could actually be made very interesting just by making it an almost 50/50 chance of going disastrously wrong. It'd be a bit of a gamble (or desperation move in some cases) and you'd definitely need to risk tackling particular AI players who decided to pursue it.

That, plus factional outbreaks and you'd have a pretty good end game condition!

[ZeroGravitas]

yeah. I've been trying to come up with some way to make a science victory condition interesting from a mechanical perspective. So far I have:

Societal issues aka "We don't want to upload!" factions breaking out, traditionalist or anti-progress cults springing up causing mass riots and mayhem. Think of a process like Westernizing in EU4, but more focused on factions resisting the unchecked progress of science.

This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking. Others might be increased neighbor aggression/jelly fallen empires ("your desire to ascend offends our religion"), unhappy allies who want you to stick around, uppity vassals ("hey, you're leaving all this stuff behind anyway, can't we just have it now?"), triggering various other crises (like extradimensional invaders), etc.

[Descan]

I'd just prefer ALL victory conditions be kind of "end-game crisis"-ey

Like maybe once you own a certain fraction of the galaxy, all the other empires just gang up on you. I guess technically that means YOU are the end-game crisis, but that seems kind of fitting. That'd be how you get a conquest victory.

Some sort of diplomatic crisis, like a series of votes to consolidate your federation into a singular state like the Trek Federation, mechanically similar to the EU holy roman empire, with the failure condition being your federation fractions into the constituent parts again. You'd need to have like, everyone or nearly everyone in your federation to count as a victory, and those would be parts of the vote conditions. Diplomatic victory (I actually really want this now.)

A tech victory crisis would have to be techy, and solved via tech. (Since the other crises are solved via their respective style of winning, diplomacy, military, etc) Whether that'd be a nanoplague/grey goo from a failed attempt at true post-scarcity, that you'd have to research the  cure and then apply to each affected system, and which would spread through the systems via fleeing survivors. Or possibly the previously Transcended species are a little miffed you're moving in (after all, maybe not all fallen empires stayed around in the Materia, eh?) and you have to somehow disrupt them a la the Sangraal from Stargate, or communicate with them to say "Hey, yo, we just wanna live WITH you, not take anything away!" either way you'd need to research that technology before they wipe you from history. (Obviously it would have to be multiple different techs along the different tech sectors, and each tech unlocked would cause events and different responses from the grey goo/ascended nerds.)

It'd be a simple matter to re-code the current crises to be have a "YOU ARE WINRAR, CONTINUE PLAYING Y/N?" pop up once the crisis is over.

Depending on how they flesh out religion, a religious victory would have to involve spreading your faith by sword or by word across to every planet (every pop?) and eventually there would have to be a proper ending apocalypse/rapture as all good religions have, which you have to.... I'm not sure. Fight? Accept? Merely survive? Maybe instead of a rapture (since that would basically say "Yes the religions in the game are All True" which Paradox seeeems to be kind of skirting?) Maybe a crusade against the remaining heathen civs (who are too stubborn to change and so you need to crusade once the event fires) that you need to convert. Similar to the conquest victory except they have the option to convert to your religion, and similar to the diplomatic victory because you have to cajol and convince people to lend aid to the cause, you probably don't own everything. ... Okay you probably do. This one needs a bit more work.

[Putnam]

It'd be a simple matter to re-code the current crises to be have a "YOU ARE WINRAR, CONTINUE PLAYING Y/N?" pop up once the crisis is over.

I mean, the current crises are events... which I guess could be reworked to include winning, but that would also require the current victory conditions to be gutted.

NVM, that's a great idea.

[umiman]

I think the victory conditions should be the same as in CK2, EU4, HOI, and DF.

[Sindain]

I think the victory conditions should be the same as in CK2, EU4, HOI, and DF.

I agree with this statement.

I've always felt the Stellaris is too much 4X and not enough grand strategy.

[JumpingJack]

-clip everything else clip-

Depending on how they flesh out religion, a religious victory would have to involve spreading your faith by sword or by word across to every planet (every pop?) and eventually there would have to be a proper ending apocalypse/rapture as all good religions have, which you have to.... I'm not sure. Fight? Accept? Merely survive? Maybe instead of a rapture (since that would basically say "Yes the religions in the game are All True" which Paradox seeeems to be kind of skirting?) Maybe a crusade against the remaining heathen civs (who are too stubborn to change and so you need to crusade once the event fires) that you need to convert. Similar to the conquest victory except they have the option to convert to your religion, and similar to the diplomatic victory because you have to cajol and convince people to lend aid to the cause, you probably don't own everything. ... Okay you probably do. This one needs a bit more work.

Yes. Very much yes. Space pope when?

[ZeroGravitas]

I think the victory conditions should be the same as in CK2, EU4, HOI, and DF.

HOI has had victory conditions before. Different games should have different rules, and they do.

[ZeroGravitas]

Depending on how they flesh out religion, a religious victory would have to involve spreading your faith by sword or by word across to every planet (every pop?) and eventually there would have to be a proper ending apocalypse/rapture as all good religions have, which you have to.... I'm not sure. Fight? Accept? Merely survive? Maybe instead of a rapture (since that would basically say "Yes the religions in the game are All True" which Paradox seeeems to be kind of skirting?) Maybe a crusade against the remaining heathen civs (who are too stubborn to change and so you need to crusade once the event fires) that you need to convert. Similar to the conquest victory except they have the option to convert to your religion, and similar to the diplomatic victory because you have to cajol and convince people to lend aid to the cause, you probably don't own everything. ... Okay you probably do. This one needs a bit more work.

There aren't going to be religions in this game, thankfully.

[Retropunch]

There aren't going to be religions in this game, thankfully.

Why thankfully? I can only see galaxy wide strategic layer as a good thing. I could see it working similarly to how 'culture' works in SoaSE, in that it starts with you and spreads to other empires, giving you bonuses in those areas to which it had spread.