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[Loud Whispers]

Why would the original keep the outnumbered bonus as it was before reinforcements arrived and not update to one more befitting the new situation?

It won't, the reinforcements will arrive either as reinforcements + original remnants < 55% enemy fleet size, or else as the enemy is so weakened that the reinforcements alone are enough to finish the enemy off

[ZeroGravitas]

It's really difficult to discuss the meaningful elements of this patch because of how much heat is being thrown off by this dumb outnumbered fire rate bonus. I will say this about it:

1. it sounds extremely dumb as a concept
2. it is extremely dumb as a mechanic
3. we don't need to resort to any kind of arguments about realism or anything to know #1 & 2
4. it will not end up mattering much because large empires are still going to crush small empires

the other changes are a mixed bag.

Fleets hard capped- This doesn't do anything but enforce more clicking. Fleets will still fight together. You can still move fleets together. They will even all travel through hyperlanes together, arriving at the same time. The only thing this does is slightly limit admiral bonuses by requiring additional admirals (and thus, marginally smaller bonuses for some of your ships.)

Ship disengagement- sounds fine, but for any real effect in wars it's going to depend on that war exhaustion mechanic they described weeks ago. withholding judgment on it since it's really part of an entirely new system. but generally i don't think it's going to matter much. as Space Comrade Churchhill said, wars are not won through disengagements. If you can't win battles, you're not going to win the war anyway.

No more reactor aux- Sounds great! It was so dumb to fiddle around with different slots trying to get the power balance right. Glad they got rid of that. Wait, they didn't: "To add a little bit of flexibility into this system, we have created a new line of utilities called Reactor Boosters that go in the Aux slot and provide some extra power for the ship, allowing smaller power deficiencies to be addressed without needing to downgrade components." Yep, still going to be futzing around with individual components trying to get the power equation to balance.

Weapons/Armor/Missiles - sounds fine, too vague to know how it'll shake out in the future and mostly doesn't matter anyway. There will end up being an optimal design for what the AI does, an optimal design for the crises and each leviathan, and various designs for MP.

[QuakeIV]

I think it would have been better to go for an approach where ships fire somewhat less often if a bunch of friendlies are clustered around it.  This has the added benefit of kindof making sense, since youd imagine they wouldnt be able to fire quite as often in order to avoid hitting allies.

What they did instead is more or less equivalent to that, so I think its at least reasonable.

That coupled with the ability for ships to disengage (assuming the disengage chance is extremely high) should make splitting up into smaller fleets quite practical.  Also, don't quote the old, fat, drunk, winston churchill on military tactics, he was a politician first and military commander second.  I win battles all the time by disengaging when the enemy gets in range and starts dealing damage, then coming back later and hitting them again.  If ships could individually disengage as they started getting hit, that would make this tactic work even better for me.

I agree that the fleet size cap is retarded though, thats just going to waste everyones time.

[umiman]

Also, don't quote the old, fat, drunk, winston churchill on military tactics, he was a politician first and military commander second.

Space Comrade Churchill is not the same as Earth Churchill.

One is a glorious beacon of collective imperialism who crushes his enemies with a hammer and flag. The other is a tank that sometimes is a flamethrower and sometimes is a bridge and has a really small penis gun.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Just so we are all on the same page, people do know that while only a specific capacity of ships can be in one fleet, the maximum number of ships in a fleet is not static, but instead based on a percentage of what your max ship capacity is, right?  It's not a static number no matter what.

Anyway, going to be setting up a game in the discord I linked earlier (repeated here for easier access).  Going to be setting up a small mod pack as well beforehand, so jump in if you want to contribute to that.  Know of a mod that can make the galaxy players only (couple could even be Fallen Empire stand-ins), so we could setup some custom rules for the game.

[Descan]

I believe the concern isn't that they've made most of the content free, but that they still charge the same price for the DLC, and are still selling it in the first place.

They're using the money to do *all* of the content, though. They're paywalling *some* of it, but in paying for the *some* content that is locked, you've effectively paid for all of it. In the sense that they wouldn't be able to, economically, pay the programmers and designers and workforce necessary to make ALL the content, paid or free.

So the economics as a consumer are a little wonky; It *seems* expensive for what you get out of it, but that's because they've given you for free like 7-10 bucks worth of content. By paying for the 13 dollar expansion, you're paying both for the 3-6 dollars worth of content that's paywalled, PLUS retroactively paying for (or better described as supporting) the 7-10 dollars worth you already have.

And also supporting them doing similarly in the future.

It might be more clear if they included Free and Paid features that went into a DLC/patch combo on the store page, instead of just on the changelog, so down the line you can see "Oh, they used half this thirteen to make this stuff I can already use and play with, and the other half is locked behind the DLC; that's why it costs more than it seems it should for what it directly unlocks by buying it."

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Speaking of that Stellaris multiplayer, wasn't started tonight, but we did create a pack of mods to use here, and Quake set up a 'when is good?' thing here for people to input when they are available (results here.)  Put up when you are good if you want to join the game if you are wanting to.

[umiman]

Speaking of that Stellaris multiplayer, wasn't started tonight, but we did create a pack of mods to use here, and Quake set up a 'when is good?' thing here for people to input when they are available (results here.)  Put up when you are good if you want to join the game if you are wanting to.

That's a lot of mods.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Bit of tweaking done to the list.  It's in its final form now.

Speaking of that Stellaris multiplayer, wasn't started tonight, but we did create a pack of mods to use here, and Quake set up a 'when is good?' thing here for people to input when they are available (results here.)  Put up when you are good if you want to join the game if you are wanting to.

That's a lot of mods.

A hefty chunk of the lot falls under the categories 'cosmetics to be certain the game states match' or 'compatibility patch to make a few play nice', with a not insignificant 'cosmetic compatibility path' due to the downscaled ships.  Of those that aren't, there's a few that are quite small (eg. One mod who's only action is to increase the number of pickable traits to 10.  Doesn't add any new traits, just increases the limit.).

[Twinwolf]

I'd like to play, but unfortunately those times are almost entirely not-working for me -_-;

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I'd like to play, but unfortunately those times are almost entirely not-working for me -_-;

Go ahead and put when you are available anyway.  You're able to select and deselect people, so it can be useful just to see when matches could potentially take place.

[forsaken1111]

I'd also be happy to play, but not really with those mods.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I'd also be happy to play, but not really with those mods.

Any in particular you have an issue with?

[forsaken1111]

Just seems a ramshackle assortment. Some are people's homebrew attempts to fix things that aren't broken. Some don't work all that well. I've tried the religion mod for example, and it was buggy at the best of times. It forced odd conflicts.

And then what is with all the stargate stuff?

No big deal, just seems like you want to play some other game and are trying to make stellaris into it?

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Just seems a ramshackle assortment. Some are people's homebrew attempts to fix things that aren't broken.

Bit of a general statement.  Can you be more specific?

I've tried the religion mod for example, and it was buggy at the best of times. It forced odd conflicts.

Indeed?  I'll remove it til its fixed, then.

And then what is with all the stargate stuff?

I went down the list of which ship type mods had compatibility with New Ship Classes and Downscaled Ships in order to give the most variety.  The number of Stargate ones (half notably patches to work with Downscaled Ships) is due to them making a disproportionatly large number.