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Author Topic: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE  (Read 1745129 times)

Draignean

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #4890 on: June 13, 2017, 06:41:24 pm »

If folks are running a succession game, may I recommend two mods?

One which allows all crisis events to occur in a single game.
A second which lets the Scourge begin showing up much sooner than normal. I believe the first check takes place maybe 75 years into the game, rather than 120+ like in vanilla.

Those two should add plenty of fun.

Maybe it's my mods, but the Prethoryn pretty much end my games whenever they show up. One of my games I can fight them to a standstill, but that's it.
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Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #4891 on: June 14, 2017, 12:05:24 am »

1. Get a couple meat world friends together.
2. Play race with democratic government.
3. Switch players every time a new leader is elected.
4. Complain bitterly about what a shitshow the old leader left you.
"This is a madhouse designed by madmen, each with a hatred for the previous one's specific brand of madness!"
Possibly the most famous succession game.
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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #4892 on: June 16, 2017, 02:34:12 pm »

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Cthulhu

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #4893 on: June 16, 2017, 02:38:34 pm »

I'm playing a race of fast-breeding short-lived bird people in a militaristic tribal democracy.  Short lived is really irritating, my scientists don't live long enough to get 5 stars to research precursor artifacts.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #4894 on: June 16, 2017, 02:45:52 pm »

I'm playing a race of fast-breeding short-lived bird people in a militaristic tribal democracy.  Short lived is really irritating, my scientists don't live long enough to get 5 stars to research precursor artifacts.

This paid off for me when I got the techs to increase lifespan. I had better buffs from my traits late game.
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Teneb

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #4895 on: June 16, 2017, 06:31:27 pm »

There was a dev diary

Spoiler: Mars Luxury Resort (click to show/hide)
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #4896 on: June 16, 2017, 10:53:58 pm »

Wait... doesn't that mean your choice of species type is no longer cosmetic?  So a desert species is functionally different than an ocean one?
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USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #4897 on: June 16, 2017, 11:12:32 pm »

Vaguely? But now you can colonize everything off the bat and dump robots everywhere so I'm not sure how much it changes things. My guess is not by a lot, since happiness cap is no longer a thing and you can dump defensive armies everywhere to deal with unrest.

I want to say that these changes makes Extremely Adaptable overcosted. Before it was worth it so that you could colonize almost every single planet you encountered instead of waiting for techs or different pops or terraforming. I guess it still helps with colonizing planets with negative habitability but those are somewhat rare and regular Adaptable should work just as well. So in practice Extremely Adaptable may turn out to be just a +5% happiness boost and a bonus to growth which I don't have the energy to calculate. You can pick up Communal and Rapid Breeders at half the cost of Extremely adaptable and still have that happiness boost and some of the growth boost, hence why I think it's overpriced.

So I guess the question is whether the bonus to growth from Extremely Adaptable is high enough to justify its cost compared to Communal + Rapid Breeders. Especially since those two points could be dumped into something else. That would require calculating this shit out which is... Something I'll do tomorrow if nobody does so beforehand.
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Culise

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #4898 on: June 16, 2017, 11:19:42 pm »

Wait... doesn't that mean your choice of species type is no longer cosmetic?  So a desert species is functionally different than an ocean one?
That was technically already true: different planet modifiers already apply to different biomes at different probabilities.  While this particular example was more important before the food rework, tropical worlds simply do not receive the Bleak (-5% habitability, -10% food) modifier, while tundra, arctic, and arid were more likely to receive it.  On the flip side, only the three Wet habitable types (Continental, Ocean, Tropical) received the Lush modifier (+10% habitability, +20% food).  Various other uninhabitable biomes also have their own particular modifiers, but those obviously aren't relevant due to being uninhabitable; by the time you could access them either via vanilla (Barren) or modded terraforming, the game had reached the state where your starting biome didn't really matter nearly as much.  At least, that was the case the last time the wiki was updated; I had to pull the specific examples from there because I couldn't recall them off the top of my head, which is rather telling regarding how significant the "difference" was. 

Still, it does seem to raise the question of whether it's OK to go further in this direction.  It does differentiate species a bit more and makes the choice of initial biome even more important, but that may not necessarily be to the better if it locks players in particular play directions due to limited bonuses.  I don't think it's a bad direction, per se, though, especially with the other changes that allow all species to at least settle all worlds from the start and alter the habitability from a hard cap on happiness to a soft modifier.  They may wish to change how expensive Adaptive/Extremely Adaptive are, though, depending on how playtesting shakes out. 

EDIT: Ah, USEC already touched on most of my second paragraph. ^_^
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Cthulhu

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #4899 on: June 17, 2017, 12:32:37 am »

I'm mostly playing this game to RP, not to optimize, so the changes sound pretty cool to me.
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USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #4900 on: June 17, 2017, 12:22:51 pm »

EDIT: Ah, USEC already touched on most of my second paragraph. ^_^

Yeah. Sorry about that. :v

Also I did the math on Adaptable/Extremely Adaptable and assuming that I understand how habitability affects pop growth, then it works like this:

The effect of (Extremely) Adaptable on pop growth depends on habitability. The closer habitability is to 100%, the larger the effect is. So the maximum amount of pop growth you're getting from Extremely Adaptable is 20%, for colonizing planets that are normally 80% habitability for your pop (ie. Not your homeworld but of the same climate). For just Adaptable it's 10%, at 90% habitability. Of course that's the best case scenario. For climates which are the same type (ie. 60% hab.) it's going to be 16.66% growth for EA and 6.66% for A. For climates of a different type (20% hab.) then the bonus is only 12.5% for EA and 5.88% and A. Of course growth is a slope for habs between these points things sharply drop off at 90~95% hab since the limit is 100% but that should give you a good idea of how Adaptable/Extremely Adaptable affects pop growth in the likely cases.

In other words, for 1 ninth of planet types, Extremely Adaptable is better than Rapid Breeders, slightly better for 2 ninths and worse for 2 thirds. On average it's a 14.26% to pop growth bonus which is honestly better than I expected, especially since moving pops from high-hab worlds to lower ones is always an option. But then that bonus starts dropping once habitability techs come in because that 20% drops to 15% and the other classes don't increase enough to fully compensate. For Adaptable the bonus to growth is only 6.51%.

So basically, in conclusion, I don't think that Adaptable/Extremely Adaptable are worth their cost with the new changes. On average, Extremely Adaptable is slightly worse than Communal + Rapid Breeders, while being twice the cost. It does let you colonize planets with habitability below 20% but that is definitely not worth 2 extra trait points, especially since its effects are significantly reduced with planets at 85% hab or above, which could easily be a third or more of them when you get all of the hab techs and fill out your Tradition tree. Adaptable gives half the bonus of Communal and 43% of Rapid breeders despite being the same cost. And again it exceeds in some edge cases and suffers in others, which makes me wary about its 2 trait point cost as well. However you could probably justify it a touch more than Extremely Adaptable.

tl;dr: Adaptable/Extremely Adaptable are not worth their costs with these changes. They should probably be bumped down in cost by 1 point or somehow reworked to justify their shit.
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Sirus

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #4901 on: June 17, 2017, 12:25:13 pm »

I'm guessing they will indeed be reworked.
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USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #4902 on: June 17, 2017, 12:40:03 pm »

Oh. And I just realized that, unless I'm forgetting something important or shit changes, Extremely Adaptable should let you colonize Tomb Worlds right off the bat now, since they start at 0% hab and you only need 20% to colonize planets. Which is... Not the best thing, since Spiritualist pops will get pissy and Spiritualist FEs will get super pissy. But, you know, it's a thing you can do now.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #4903 on: June 17, 2017, 12:51:01 pm »

My new game is militarist egalitarian xenophiles.  We world galaxy police now.  You're gonna be free or else
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #4904 on: June 17, 2017, 01:15:34 pm »

So hive minds can inhabit every standard planet time without penalty from the very start?
Well, I suppose they needed some kind of boost.
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