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Author Topic: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE  (Read 1746178 times)

LoSboccacc

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2820 on: June 16, 2016, 02:37:15 am »

I don't miss espionage per se, but "not knowing enemy ship at all until is too late and then you're dead" as a mechanic sucks badly.

Enemy military ship rarely have a reason to leave their border so you cannot even stalk the border and catch them in transit to a neutral system most of the time.

Generally the whole game seems just to swing between growth and warring phases with nothing in between to spice things up. Even endgames are for the most part a setup for more warring, with only the
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
adding something interesting.
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Majestic7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2821 on: June 16, 2016, 03:03:04 am »

I don't agree with replayability, but I've heard the complaint from other sources. So I certainly acknowledge that many people have the same issue. It seems to be a matter of taste.

Personally, I've played 100 hours or so, but I think 70 of them have been early game. Basically I've been starting new games over and over again. Expanding, exploring anomalies and so forth is so much fun. Middle game is where I tend to lose interest and when I return to the game, I just start all over again.

Paradox has already said they will work on the middle game events, so yeah, I look forward to seeing what the game will be in the future. Right now I think it is the best 4X that has come out recently, beating GalCiv etc handily. However, of the new-ish games Distant Worlds is still better. I just see Stellaris taking over DW in a year or so with new content and mechanics.
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2822 on: June 16, 2016, 03:13:12 am »

honestly I enjoyed this one much more and spent many much hours in this

http://www.pocketspaceempire.com

there's a thread with a demo floating around. if you can get behind the bare bone graphics, aliens conflicts and mid game is much more interesting there.

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Glloyd

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2823 on: June 16, 2016, 03:13:51 am »

I don't agree with replayability, but I've heard the complaint from other sources. So I certainly acknowledge that many people have the same issue. It seems to be a matter of taste.

Personally, I've played 100 hours or so, but I think 70 of them have been early game. Basically I've been starting new games over and over again. Expanding, exploring anomalies and so forth is so much fun. Middle game is where I tend to lose interest and when I return to the game, I just start all over again.

Paradox has already said they will work on the middle game events, so yeah, I look forward to seeing what the game will be in the future. Right now I think it is the best 4X that has come out recently, beating GalCiv etc handily. However, of the new-ish games Distant Worlds is still better. I just see Stellaris taking over DW in a year or so with new content and mechanics.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, the early game is great. But you said it yourself, that you lose interest in the middle of the game. What you're saying is that two thirds of the game are bad enough that they don't keep your interest. To me, that's a bad game. The lategame especially is no fun at all, and I had to force myself to play any of it. I think I'd rather cut a finger off then try to conquer the whole galaxy at this point though, at least I'd get an interesting story out of the former.

Majestic7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2824 on: June 16, 2016, 03:54:35 am »

I think the victory conditions are misleading; most Paradox games have none and instead you are supposed to just muck around till you get bored. I consider the hours of fun I got from Stellaris already worth the price, but of course, your mileage may vary. I understand that for people playing to win the current thing is frustrating.
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Glloyd

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2825 on: June 16, 2016, 04:08:42 am »

My gripe is not with that part of it though, but more the fact that if you want to experience what little endgame content there is, you've got to slog through to it, something I, and by the sounds of it you, do not want to do. In my books, that makes it a bad game, when only a small part of it is fun. Even if you choose to avoid the unfun part, it doesn't change the fact that a large part of the intended game experience is a part you and I would rather stay away from. Either way, I've said my piece, and I don't see this game getting to a state that I would personally consider good without a bunch of DLCS, which is a shame.

BFEL

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2826 on: June 16, 2016, 07:25:39 am »

Either way, I've said my piece, and I don't see this game getting to a state that I would personally consider good without a bunch of DLCS, which is a shame. exactly what we expected from the start
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umiman

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2827 on: June 16, 2016, 11:42:47 am »

I think it's also absolutely vital there be a giant superlaser capable of destroying planets. It's a vital component of 4x space games and the quality of such a game is indirectly related to this ability.

For example, MoO2 had an incredible cutscene (back in the day) of you cutting a planet in half with the stellar converter.
Planet destroyers from DW, too.

Honestly, if a space game lacks planet destruction, something's gone seriously wrong somewhere in the design process.

---------------

There's a Reddit thread of things people think are missing: https://www.reddit.com/r/Stellaris/comments/4kuvej/what_would_you_like_to_see_in_stellaris_thats/

---------------

You should also be aware that about a month ago Paradox informed the guy running Steam Spy to remove all Paradox listings from his website. You can draw whatever conclusions you want but I think it's because they wanted to obscure their dwindling playerbase for their recent games from affecting their IPO.

Sirbug

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2828 on: June 16, 2016, 01:32:19 pm »

Until they fix cat-and-mouse doomstack on doomstack action that war currently is, I'd rather them not give ability to blow up planets.
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Cool, but wouldn't this likely lead to tongues having a '[SPEACH]' tag, and thus via necromancy we would have nearly unkillable reanimated tongues following necromancers spamming 'it is sad but not unexpected'?

LoSboccacc

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2829 on: June 16, 2016, 01:41:26 pm »

Until they fix cat-and-mouse doomstack on doomstack action that war currently is, I'd rather them not give ability to blow up planets.

Stellaris, a 4x that punishes you for expand, extermination is boring, exploiting is barebone but hey, exploration is top notch!

edit: actually scratch that, exploration is repetitive a.f. as mechanic, it's just the fluff that's good, if you are into reading.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 01:44:53 pm by LoSboccacc »
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Sirbug

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2830 on: June 16, 2016, 02:03:07 pm »

It doesn't punish you for expansion. Science is useless. I don't see how working smarter not harder can possibly work. No way anyone could build enough lead.
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Cool, but wouldn't this likely lead to tongues having a '[SPEACH]' tag, and thus via necromancy we would have nearly unkillable reanimated tongues following necromancers spamming 'it is sad but not unexpected'?

Loud Whispers

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2831 on: June 16, 2016, 02:34:45 pm »

EDIT: Honestly, I think the fact that discussion in this thread dried up so quickly is evident that it is lacking somehow. Is anyone here still playing this regularly? I remember when CKII came out that thread was rapidfire for months, it's still very active. In the first few months there was all sorts of cool stories and playthroughs. Here there's been just over 20 posts on this thread since the start of June for a game that came out less than a months ago, and most of those were related to DLC or the argument about how the tech penalties for having a large empire don't make sense by comparing it to real countries.
Lots and lots of modding and experimentation is required before a full gaming session can be completed, and the killing detail is that besides the Crisis species, the nomads and spacefaring xenos, the species of Stellaris are by virtue of totally random RNG usually less different from one another than CKII individuals are from one another. It is also particularly noticeable that religious ethos governments don't have religions represented, just some vague notion of spiritualness, so you get that funny situation where fanatical purifiers absolutely hate each other for being heretics but once one conquers the other becomes one massive fanatical family without issue ;P

I think it's definitely worth taking the time to filling out loads of species of your own creation (OC species donut steal e.t.c.) and giving them character so in addition to RNG elements, you have rich narrative species to interact with them and vastly increase playability.

Tales of Enigmatic Miroslavs:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Ubaric Hearthstate: Species of friendly elder Tortoises, amenable to dry worlds. They don't like expanding quickly or waging wars of conquest (or wars at all) and multiply slowly, but slow and steady wins the race.
Currently they have managed to amass the largest Empire, the largest Navy and formed a federation with which they have dedicated themself to making the galaxy a more liberal and multispecial galaxy through diplomacy and trade - with their leaders and their immense lifespans having helped them considerably. Four Miroslav Emperors and Empresses have died of old age and the first Ubaric Admiral still lives. Usually they only end up as a middling power or get gobbled up by a more warlike species, but as time goes on, age shows its benefits over its weaknesses.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Scyllan Habitated Space is a danger to anyone who shares its borders. They are extremely capable when it comes to settling other worlds - and they have no qualms with exterminating any other species that once lived on those planets. This renders their repugnance rather redundant. Weak, slow-learning, the Scyllan embody the notion of the quality of quantity - it is usually not worth approaching their Habitated Space.
Fortunately for the Galaxy, when their species was rising in power their Habitated Space was caught between the Hegemonic crossfire of three greater Imperial Species - thus resulting in the Scyllan Balkan Wars, in which greater Empires fought to carve up their species into many protectorates.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Zaxxoid Territory - aggressive democratic liberators, unwilling to share the stars with a single collectivist regime (but otherwise quite friendly to democracies). They continually assaulted the Miroslav Sol System without respite, always keeping the Miroslav species on the brink of liberation. After 150 years of defending against Zaxxoid invasions, the Zaxxoid managed to assemble a massive federation to finally crack the Terran Fortress. Unfortunately after 150 years, the Terrans had amassed a hefty technological superiority.
After 3 years of Interstellar combat, the Miroslav Clone Army assaulted the Capital of the Zaxxoid Territory. Technology had at last bridged the gap of innate Zaxxoid superiority; all of their planets were abandoned apart from their Capital, the Capital itself becoming a client state of the newly arisen Miroslav Empire. From the ashes of this 150 year old war, a new Interstellar Hegemony would emerge

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thembolon Infestation. Other species find their method of saprosexual reproduction to be horrifying, multiplying in their sapient form when their spores take over the corpses of recently perished sentient species. These Thembolon hosts grow agitated when in the presence of other Thembolon hosts, driving them to seek out other planets (and new sources of hosts). The Thembolon fungoid is actually rather friendly and respectful of other species, and do not like taking hosts by force - thus they reproduce slowly, and seek migration access with large federations. Despite their hideous nature and some species finding it traumatizing that a fungus may be wearing their dead family member's body, federation members appreciate that the immense resilience of the average Thembolon host makes them valuable soldiers and miners, lacking many of the organs needed to make such activities perilous.
The Thembolon have since become the military arm of the Just League; whilst the Miroslav Empire has agreed to live peacefully besides their Infested Space, every Emperor and Empress to date has refused them migration access to the Miroslav Star Systems.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Kroll Empire are a species of useless cat people that are by the design of some cruel god fated to perish, after said cruel god gave them supremacy in their planet and interstellar travel.
The Kroll do not learn quickly, they hate the company of other Kroll and are weak and incapable of supporting great industry or war. They value scientific pursuit, individualism and federation - and that is where their true value lies, in the value of friendship. Other species like fluffy tail and planets benefit greatly from their joyous presence. With that said, I have never seen them ever form a federation before some Imperial Power conquered them and used their fluffiness as adorable mascots for the Imperial Species. The only thing of note is that this time the Kroll were conquered by Reptilian Cat people.

Of course, a lot of modding goes a long way to helping make a narrative. For 150 years the Miroslav Stars were more accurately described as the Miroslav Star - being entirely limited to one star system. After the Great Zaxxoid Crusades were finally defeated however, the Miroslav were ready to take to the stars in the first phase of expansion. Terraforming had allowed the Miroslav to maximize output in one star system, and with one small part of the galactic horizon under their control, the potential was near-limitless. The galactic community at large was initially quite concerned, but after signing trade treaties exchanging Miroslav minerals for their energy, the galaxy was friendly enough to begin giving multilateral sensor link cooperation. The M-Stars were one with the Galactic Community!
I think now Espionage is not needed, if you can  get Sensor Link information which details you all of the defences of potential target planets, fleet sizes, compositions AND you can check the individual specifications of rival ships to develop the hard counter to them. All the same, the Miroslavs were not looking to invade them - rather, looking to see what they were up to. Being a spiritual Empire of utmost ethical concern, it was intriguing to see how their galactic peers managed with terraforming and settling of extreme worlds.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Some followed the example of the Miroslav Stars, terraforming barren worlds into life-giving gems.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In two cases I found two separate Empires had colonized a molten planet with second class species. Most unethical - fortunately, an incredibly rare occurrence.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The vast majority of hostile planets were however settled by robots (in fact, the only gaseous planet settled by biological species were a long-lost Miroslav outpost that had formed a planetary league of their own).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I began to grow incredibly concerned at the sheer volume of robot colonies the materialist Empires were founding. This galaxy had an unusual abundance of spiritualist Empires (none of which had summoned the unbidden) and I believe that they had been holding the materialist Empires from researching synths. In lieu of synths, those Empires had been vastly increasing their power by sending droid colonies everywhere - hostile, rich planets crewed entirely by droids. In the year of 2284, the Miroslav Observatory noticed something incredibly disheartening - the first synth colonies were being produced.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Miroslav feared that something very, very bad was on the horizon...

Flying Dice

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2832 on: June 16, 2016, 07:41:41 pm »

Yeah, they tried to hit all the 4X key notes while still making essentially the same Paradox grand strategy IN SPAAAACE!, so almost everything was incomplete or lackluster. 4X is all about total conquest, so victory conditions, but war itself is boring and tedious at best because you're not really supposed to focus too much on combat or expand too quickly in Paradox games. Paradox is all about roleplaying as a nation-state, but there's no preexisting political or cultural entities or frameworks and they didn't do good pre-designed species, so everything is bland and generic.
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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2833 on: June 16, 2016, 08:53:45 pm »

I don't get why there's so much negativity. The game is good, and its downsides are nothing unexpected. In fact, it has far more polish and stability than most Paradox games on release.

But hey, my friends like it.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2834 on: June 16, 2016, 09:05:03 pm »

Because it's the same old Paradox pattern of releasing a game which is obviously incomplete and buggy, then letting people have the choice of spending ~$100-120 and a year or three to get the complete game.

Even if the final product is great, it's a fucking irritating process to get there, and not exactly easy on the pocketbook.

I said this a while back, but when I was modding it and bugfixing there was a lot of shit that should have been caught if they did any playtesting at all, stuff that I was able to identify, locate, and fix within minutes as a total novice both in modding generally and to modding Paradox games.
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