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[Criptfeind]

Really? Ways that balance different play styles seems very 4x to me...

[Neonivek]

Protip: if you don't focus on having good research, you won't have as good research as those who do.

It isn't that. I had good research.

But because I was really large it meant my supreme research meant a quarter as much as other empires.

So basically if I wanted to keep up, I'd have to build four times as many research planets as everyone else... even though I had four times the number of research points (and researcher bonuses) they did.

Imagine if in Civilization if for every city you had, you got less research.

Ultimately it means that if you want a research focus you have to keep a research focus throughout the game. Leading up to essentially there being a soft-cap for research.

[Criptfeind]

Imagine if in Civilization if for every city you had, you got less research.

Whew man. That's a big ask. I don't think I could possibly imagine such a radical thing. Or, to put it another way, that is how it works in Civ, yes.

[Neonivek]

Imagine if in Civilization if for every city you had, you got less research.

Whew man. That's a big ask. I don't think I could possibly imagine such a radical thing. Or, to put it another way, that is how it works in Civ, yes.

Really? Huh...

This is one of the weirdest series of things I heard.

[Virtz]

Imagine if in Civilization if for every city you had, you got less research.

Whew man. That's a big ask. I don't think I could possibly imagine such a radical thing. Or, to put it another way, that is how it works in Civ, yes.

Only in Civ V AFAIK. Didn't work that way before.

It's also incredibly retarded and counter-intuitive. It's like rubber-banding in a racing game. All for the sake of "balance" achieved in the lamest, most gamey way possible.

[ZeroGravitas]

traditionally (in 4xs) the counterbalance to being really big and developing a cool new tech for buildings was that you had to build the building in all of your cities/provinces/planets/etc or retrofit your fleet, so that being small saved you those costs.

the civ 5 research penalty thing has been through many iterations, though. it was once the case that "infinite city sprawl" was the ideal strategy. it's pretty widely considered that the final version of civ 5, in which you pick exactly 3-4 ideal city spots, is pretty boring and nobody would seek to replicate it again.

the recent switch in Stellaris from 2% per pop to 10% per planet and 1% per pop seems like a pretty boring step towards what Civ 5 ultimately embodied: a game where your RNG start had a huge impact on your ultimate success.

(it also serves to highlight how underbaked Stellaris was, but that was evident from day 1 anyway)

[TempAcc]

Imagine if in Civilization if for every city you had, you got less research.

Whew man. That's a big ask. I don't think I could possibly imagine such a radical thing. Or, to put it another way, that is how it works in Civ, yes.

Only in Civ V AFAIK. Didn't work that way before.

It's also incredibly retarded and counter-intuitive. It's like rubber-banding in a racing game. All for the sake of "balance" achieved in the lamest, most gamey way possible.

This. The last thing I want stellaris to be similar to is civ V.

[EuchreJack]

Hey, I just figured out why the Fallen Empires stopped expanding.

They determined that any further expansion would cause them to lose research!

[Not good with names]

Imagine if in Civilization if for every city you had, you got less research.

Whew man. That's a big ask. I don't think I could possibly imagine such a radical thing. Or, to put it another way, that is how it works in Civ, yes.

Only in Civ V AFAIK. Didn't work that way before.

It's also incredibly retarded and counter-intuitive. It's like rubber-banding in a racing game. All for the sake of "balance" achieved in the lamest, most gamey way possible.

This. The last thing I want stellaris to be similar to is civ V.

Civ 4 had an expansion penalty in the form of financial maintenance, which was functionally the same as Stellaris except your financial condition affected your military as well (Actually harsher, since until you hit a certain number of cities it would increase the maintenance in all cities), which didn't result in Civ V stagnation. 

I'm still in the camp that the research change

1) didn't functionally change research times.  You're building farms to fill your tiles right?  That research difference between pops 1-10 doesn't matter because you weren't going to have them on research anyway.

2) Was essentially just a nerf to single robot pop colonies that work a power plant.  That = 2% research penalty for ~1 energy credit, ~20 naval capacity, at least now it's an 11% penalty to guide you away from making Improved influenceless frontier outposts for a one time cost of 400 minerals, and 200 energy.

If we had a Civ 5 system then it would be some crappy global food/happiness system where once you hit the ideal number of cities/systems there wouldn't be a point in expanding.  Every ethic combination would have a graph with a peak in the middle of it, representing optimal number of systems.  As it stands expansion is always good, as long as it's balanced with energy and research.

[Astral]

I do feel the research penalties are a bit too harsh, especially mid-late game, where research turns into a crawl... I'm looking into finding or making a simple mod that will dial that back a bit. It makes sense to an extent, but currently (in the 1.1 beta) a 10% increase per planet and a 1% increase per population far outstrips your ability to keep up with the current iteration of research buildings, stations and observation posts.

It was a little easier with the More Technology mod, as you could create buildings that provide no benefit on their own, but give adjacency bonuses to other tiles. Like that thing in the tutorial said other buildings do, but is currently limited to the Planetary Administration and its upgrades. Unfortunately, sector AI doesn't utilize them at all, but a decent grid pattern can yield far more output than simply stacking buildings as you are required to now.

My current game has me in complete control of approximately 1/3rd of the galaxy, and having taken over a tech hoarder Fallen Empire. But it still takes ~1-5 years to research fairly simple things, even with roughly 70 research oriented planets in sectors devoted to it, and about 1-2k research income for each field.

[Taricus]

1-5 years is the norm. You're in trouble when things start taking over 70-80 months to complete.

[Aedel]

You're in trouble when things start taking over 70-80 months to complete.

is it wrong that most techs take 200-300 months for me to complete

i think im doing something a little big wrong

[Astral]

1-5 years is the norm. You're in trouble when things start taking over 70-80 months to complete.

Some techs were taking roughly 100 months or so. I get that it's a long-winded game, but after a long days conquer I want to sit back and see some new toys stream in when I've got over half my available planets devoted to research.

Edit: I made a simple mod here. It halves the current beta values of 10% per planet and 1% per pop to 5% per planet and .5% per pop. It also makes it so your homeworld (16 pop) doesn't count against your current tech research, as normally anything past 10 population will begin incurring a cost increase.

[Exerosp]

I'm guessing you guys aren't going Materialist or something. Or valuing research speed. Shouldn't you have 70+ in every research speed more or less before 2270?

[Astral]

Fanatic Collectivist / Materialist still yields subpar results. How else can you get research speed % increases?