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Author Topic: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE  (Read 1746490 times)

Neonivek

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2595 on: May 24, 2016, 07:09:26 pm »

Think Stellaris is worth buying in its current state? It give me 20 dollars leftover to spend on something else. Or should I wait for some DLC?

While I think it is worth buying in its current state.

Wait for some DLC. It has a lot of egregious aspects right now and I feel like I like it in spite of how bad it is.
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PTTG??

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2596 on: May 24, 2016, 07:28:51 pm »

Think Stellaris is worth buying in its current state? It give me 20 dollars leftover to spend on something else. Or should I wait for some DLC?

While I think it is worth buying in its current state.

Wait for some DLC. It has a lot of egregious aspects right now and I feel like I like it in spite of how bad it is.

Well, to be honest, I wish I'd borrowed Stellaris from a friend and spent $40 on Overwatch instead.
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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2597 on: May 24, 2016, 07:34:00 pm »

Infinite fucking DLC

Teneb

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2598 on: May 24, 2016, 07:39:24 pm »

Infinite fucking DLC
The galaxy is vast, and full of DLC.
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BFEL

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2599 on: May 24, 2016, 08:12:34 pm »

Infinite fucking DLC
The galaxy is vast, and full of DLC.
I thought he was proposing a DLC about unending copulation.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2600 on: May 24, 2016, 08:22:27 pm »

Okay, my foray into mod-modding is done and about to be tested. In addition to the above changes, I also bumped out strike craft range to 250 (since the L T5 missiles were sitting at 160), slightly increased range on PD weapons and damage on bombers, reduced firing cooldown on higher-tier autocannons and missiles (to bring them in line with other buffs, and to help alleviate the problem of DPS wasted on things that die while missiles are in flight-tier one missiles are the same as before for Beautiful Battles, while tier five missiles have the same cooldown as all lasers and railguns) and added art assets for all the extra rangefinder computers I made to account for longer weapon ranges. I also altered the behaviors of the computers because I think I figured out what's causing the bug where Defensive computers cause ships to hover at a distance and do nothing.

The default attack_move behavior for Defensive (vanilla) and long range (Rangefinders) computers is "follow", but their preferred_attack range is set at "max", and their return to formation distance is almost always markedly shorter than their maximum weapon range. So what I'm thinking is happening is that when that happens the ship just gets locked into conflicting orders-they're simultaneously trying to move to maximum weapon range, follow their target (or flee if the enemy is approaching), and return to the fleet.

So what I've done is ensure that there's a Rangefinder with a return to fleet distance 5 units farther out than the maximum range of every weapon, as well as changing the attack_move behavior to "orbit". I'm hoping that that means that ships with long-ranged weapons will successfully sit out at long range, orbiting the battle, and firing continuously, while also returning to the main action if they manage to wander too far away.

I also attempted to address the problem with the bugged Aggressive computer stats. As of right now it looks like these ship modifiers don't work, regardless of whether you attach them to components or ship_sizes: ship_weapon_range_mult; ship_weapon_damage; ship_fire_rate_mult. What I've done is set up the stat computers so that they all give utility bonuses. The default one gives +5% combat speed and +5 evasion; the Aggressive ones give +20% combat speed, +5% accuracy, and +5 evasion at tier one and double that at tier two; the Defensive ones give +10% HP, +10 evasion, and +2.5% shield regen at tier one and double that at tier two; the sentient combat computer gives +50% combat speed, +15 Evasion, +10% accuracy, and +5% shield health; the precog combat computer gives +20 evasion, +20% weapon accuracy, and 10% combat speed.

I don't doubt that the stat computers will need balancing, but that helps delineate roles and I want to be sure that everything works to begin with. It's a pretty straight progression from AggT1 to sentient; defensive forks off into favoring the big tanky brawlers (as cruisers and BBs already have buffed HP values); precog plays well with skirmishers and snipers. Unfortunately there's not much to benefit missile boats apart from the pure defensive ones since the DPS-related values don't work, but hopefully that'll change--and they've got enough of an advantage being able to eventually lob missiles from well beyond anything else's engagement range. The +40% combat speed on AggT2 and +50% on sentient is necessary, I think, so that people can set up hunter-killer Corvettes that will actually be able to catch missile boats and carriers, even ones that mount the same computer. You could also drop it on a destroyer mounting a particle lance or something to get better DPS. Maybe pair lance and artillery destroyer classes, or use torpedo corvettes.

Basically my overarching goal is both to comprehensively fix combat balance and ensure that there's good reasons to diversify your weapon selection and fleet composition instead of just spamming the best couple things.

Off to test now.

words

Ah well, there was going to be a blowout no matter what they did. Not that it matters, as someone will probably reupload the mod at a later date.

Yeah, I saw trouble brewing the moment I noticed that set of mods. I also knew shit would only be thrown over the yuro one.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 08:26:16 pm by Flying Dice »
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BFEL

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2601 on: May 24, 2016, 08:31:14 pm »

Until this thread I never realized how awesome Flying Dice is.
Way to go dude.
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IronyOwl

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2602 on: May 24, 2016, 08:41:16 pm »

Think Stellaris is worth buying in its current state? It give me 20 dollars leftover to spend on something else. Or should I wait for some DLC?

While I think it is worth buying in its current state.

Wait for some DLC. It has a lot of egregious aspects right now and I feel like I like it in spite of how bad it is.

Well, to be honest, I wish I'd borrowed Stellaris from a friend and spent $40 on Overwatch instead.
While I don't regret my purchase, it feels like Stellaris is half a game right now. Which sounds vague and cliche, but seriously: It's a great game until you start noticing all the voids, not just where game could be or where you'd want it to be, but where it really looks like something was supposed to go and the devs wanted to put something in but didn't have time.

I don't doubt the DLC is going to be amazing and without number, but I'll have to second that it'd probably be more efficient to wait for it to become a good game than to buy it now, love it for a while, and then piece by piece realize that vast swathes of it are still under (possibly expensive) construction.

words

Ah well, there was going to be a blowout no matter what they did. Not that it matters, as someone will probably reupload the mod at a later date.

Yeah, I saw trouble brewing the moment I noticed that set of mods. I also knew shit would only be thrown over the yuro one.
Should've kept their plausible deniability by staying out of it. Now everything they don't remove has implicit approval.

Until this thread I never realized how awesome Flying Dice is.
Way to go dude.
Haven't tried them, but he also seems to be personifying the "it took modders 45 minutes to fix your broken shit with modding tools, what happened?" issue. Like I said earlier, there's areas of this game where they seem to have run out of time or made some mistakes, and there's areas of this game where they didn't seem to have given a single shit. Those latter areas are collectively known as naval combat.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2603 on: May 24, 2016, 08:54:03 pm »

Not just naval combat. There are some broken events and anomalies that I've fixed which were broken solely because whoever wrote them didn't bother to double-check their values. Including some where they were literally copy-paste jobs (the Master's Writings edicts) that only needed a single word changed between entries, yet whoever made them managed to shift from their original form to a notable different one between entries. It's like they were put together by a committee of drunkards.

No clue why those three weapon modifiers don't work, either. Probably not defined properly somewhere, I might go looking later.
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Vendayn

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2604 on: May 24, 2016, 09:08:48 pm »

So, is the main complaint that there is a lot of things not finished, and pretty much left for DLC?

I remember when I bought EU4, that was a major complaint (pretty sure it was EU4, maybe CK2? Both?) and I still had a lot of fun with it. I remember a ton of people complaining about EU4/CK2 and how buggy it was, and pretty sure one or both of them people complained about unfinished stuff too, or stuff that needed a lot of work.

I'll probably just wait to spend that 59.99 and see how things go. A patch is coming out supposedly for Stellaris today (or is it already out?) and a 2nd one after that. I'll probably see how the game is after the 2nd patch. There isn't anything else I want to spend money on though. And warhammer total war (was kinda looking forward to it) is not enough diplomacy/economy/espionage focused for me (granted every total war is focused on battles lol). Plus that take all the money my friend put in my steam account lol. Maybe Ark, but meh. Or the fallout 4 DLC, but I'd rather wait for all the DLC in one nice pack.
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Teneb

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2605 on: May 24, 2016, 09:38:06 pm »

Hey FD, could you get us a link to this mod whenever you got something out?
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Cruxador

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2606 on: May 24, 2016, 11:35:34 pm »

Sorry to continue this thread, but what the heck is this Sweden yes/no thing?
This is an easily googlable thing.

So, is the main complaint that there is a lot of things not finished, and pretty much left for DLC?
There's actually going to be a fair amount of patching before they get into DLC, and it will be reasonably finished in like a year even without any DLC purchased.

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This is a wise course of action.
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Culise

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2607 on: May 24, 2016, 11:39:52 pm »

Sorry to continue this thread, but what the heck is this Sweden yes/no thing?
This is an easily googlable thing.
So, it's a Youtube video about local variations in the Swedish word for "yes" from Västerbotten on north?  I can't see the fuss, but I'm sure you know better than I; after all, it's so easily Googled that it couldn't possibly mean anything else. :P

((And yes, I know what's being referred to.  For greatorder's benefit, it's a meme that's basically used in mockery of both multiculturalism and gender politics, especially in the context of Sweden, which is viewed as being "overly accepting" of foreign cultures; you can see why it's a bit of a hot-button political issue on the Intertubes between things like Tumblerites, MRAs, and the such. I just don't like it when people substitute blind arrogance for education.))
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 11:41:44 pm by Culise »
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Majestic7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2608 on: May 25, 2016, 12:20:00 am »

I just find it funny how some random neckbeards are experts in the social and political issues of Sweden because they spend a few hours a day in /r/thedonald or something. A shame it is bleeding over to Stellaris. Clockwork Empires had the same; someone had a meltdown on Steam forums because there are black, female overseers in the game.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #2609 on: May 25, 2016, 12:46:21 am »

GOD DAMN IT I JUST WASTED FOUR HOURS HUNTING FOR A PROBLEM THAT WAS CAUSED BY A LACK OF CLARITY AND SHITTY PLANNING ON PARADOX'S PART

At least I fixed the poor keywording in the BB-compatible variant of Rangefinders.

But yeah, it turns out that the combat computers aren't capable of handling some or all of the stat bonuses I was trying to apply to them. As in, they disappear from the ship design view and the rest of those required utility modules are fucked up. Gonna experiment and see what I can add to them, and maybe try to find out how to fix the bugged DPS modifiers.

Hey FD, could you get us a link to this mod whenever you got something out?
I'm kinda hesitant to release it as a standalone since it's built pretty heavily on others' work. I'll probably only put it up as an explicit compilation+modification of the mods I'm working with, with my own touches included, and that only if I get permission from the authors involved. If that doesn't swing, I'll at least host a dropbox for whoever around here wants it.

Won't be able to combat-test until I get the stat computers set up properly, but here's some teasers.

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