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[10ebbor10]

Spoiler: Proposals (click to show/hide)

AS-AT18-35  (High velocity 35 mm tank gun)
+ Should be an effective solution against enemy tanks for the near future
+ Precursor to medium-light tank
+ Largest sensible name yet

AS-AC1918 (20 mm Autocannon)
+ Should be an effective solution against enemy tanks for the near future
+ Finally resolves the fact that we don't actually have a machine gun anyone can carry
+ Early anti-aircraft/ Potential aircraft armament.

AS-R18  (Bolt action sniper rifle)
+ Should be adequate against enemy armor
+ Good in mountains and other places were snipers are useful

AS-RH18-320
+ Can attack enemy resource production in the desert
+ Battleship precursor
+ Really big gun

Arstotzka-class Gunboat
- No numbers in the name
+ Creates navy

AS-SAR17. (Semi-auto Battle Rifle)
+ Resolves our infantry disadvantage
+ Unlikely to fail, considering all precursor technologies were already developed

Spoiler: Votes (click to show/hide)

AS-AT18-35 : Andrea, UR, Tryrar
AS-AC1918: 10ebbor10, Andres (2),
Arstotzka-class Gunboat : Sheb
AS-SAR17 : Andres (1), Hiddenleafguy

[Andres]

well, I made my link more aestethically pleasing(now it appears as Propaganda!.  I think you might have messed up your explanation somewhere however, since it ended as a huge link

@andres thaks! print screen might not work however. This thing is big. I am afraid it would be unreadable. Still, I'll try.

Just to add a bit more character, replace the figure for a pound in the price for a cyrillic A.

I really don't like the way people do conditional voting. It really makes everything confusing.

Yeah but it's also more democratic.

I'm fine with you doing it, but at the very least then clean up the bureaucracy you thus make, and update the form.

What does "update the form" mean? Can you give me an example?

The M1's semiautomatic operation gave United States forces a significant advantage in firepower and shot-to-shot recovery time over individual enemy infantrymen in battle. (German, Italian, and Japanese soldiers were usually armed with bolt-action rifles.) The semi-automatic operation and reduced recoil allowed soldiers to fire 8 rounds without having to move their hands on the rifle and therefore disrupt their firing position and point of aim. General George S. Patton called it "the greatest implement of battle ever devised."

Yes, but the United States army did not spend 50% of it's budget designing it.

I guess you have a point there, but it might be the only way to get out a battle rifle.

We could use the redesign for something else. We could revise the SMG and get five times as many out there onto the field if we did. Alternatively, we could revise the T15's tread to be less complex. This would make the tank merely Expensive.

Ok, you've convinced me not to use the revision slot to make the gun. Haven't convinced me to use the design slot.

I'm just looking it up again and I realised the T15 isn't even Very Expensive any more. Ever since the new resource system, our T15 is only one point above Expensive, keeping it Expensive. If we revise the treads and get the resources from the Plains, it'll become entirely non-Expensive. Blitzkrieg all the way to Moskurg!
But anyway, we have the technology for Changeable Barrels. We could make it moddable and let the rifle barrel be replaced by a carbine barrel for CQC. Then we'd have both a reliable battle rifle and a reliable carbine.

Glory to Arstotzka.

EDIT: Any reliable battle rifle we make today will likely be the last battle rifle we'll ever have to make. Just saying.

[tryrar]

you forgot my vote for the AS-AT18-35 gun 10ebbor

[Ukrainian Ranger]

TP-15 is very expensive. We have 3 ore it costs 4 ore.  Bringing it to expensive will allow us field more, but TP-15 is a trench tank. whatever you will do, it will not work in desert. Abandon it. It is mobile bunker that need to be reinforced with sandbags. Nothing more can't be squeezed from it.

Spoiler: Proposals (click to show/hide)

AS-AT18-35  (High velocity 35 mm tank gun)
+ Should be an effective solution against enemy tanks for the near future
+ Precursor to medium-light tank
+ Largest sensible name yet

AS-AC1918 (20 mm Autocannon)
+ Should be an effective solution against enemy tanks for the near future
+ Finally resolves the fact that we don't actually have a machine gun anyone can carry
+ Early anti-aircraft/ Potential aircraft armament.

AS-R18  (Bolt action sniper rifle)
+ Should be adequate against enemy armor
+ Good in mountains and other places were snipers are useful

AS-RH18-320
+ Can attack enemy resource production in the desert
+ Battleship precursor
+ Really big gun

Arstotzka-class Gunboat
- No numbers in the name
+ Creates navy

AS-SAR17. (Semi-auto Battle Rifle)
+ Resolves our infantry disadvantage
+ Unlikely to fail, considering all precursor technologies were already developed

Spoiler: Votes (click to show/hide)

AS-AT18-35 : Andrea, UR(1), tryrar
AS-AC1918: 10ebbor10, Andres (2),
Arstotzka-class Gunboat : Sheb
AS-SAR17 : Andres (1), Hiddenleafguy
AS-R18 : UR(2)

More votes for the gun! It will allow us to design a tank later!

EDIT: Any reliable battle rifle we make today will likely be the last battle rifle we'll ever have to make. Just saying.

IF WE MAKE IT TODAY

Why are you assuming 6666666 rolls?

[10ebbor10]

I really don't like the way people do conditional voting. It really makes everything confusing.

Yeah but it's also more democratic.

I'm fine with you doing it, but at the very least then clean up the bureaucracy you thus make, and update the form.

What does "update the form" mean? Can you give me an example?

The list with proposals/ votes which should hopefully prevent the GM from having to look through 4 pages of discussion gathering votes.

I'm just looking it up again and I realised the T15 isn't even Very Expensive any more. Ever since the new resource system, our T15 is only one point above Expensive, keeping it Expensive. If we revise the treads and get the resources from the Plains, it'll become entirely non-Expensive. Blitzkrieg all the way to Moskurg!

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way, and that the T15 is still very expensive.  But the T15 doesn't work in the desert. It's already bloody hot in the plains, it will be outright deadly in the desert. Combine that with water shortages, and our tank will be a very expensive coffin.

[Andres]

Why are you assuming 6666666 rolls?

Why are you assuming 2121212 rolls?

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way, and that the T15 is still very expensive.  But the T15 doesn't work in the desert. It's already bloody hot in the plains, it will be outright deadly in the desert. Combine that with water shortages, and our tank will be a very expensive coffin.

Reread the new rules and you're right, it doesn't work that way. Revising the treads would still make it Expensive. Alternatively, we could revise the engine again, making it smaller, more efficient, and give off less heat. This'll make the tank more comfortable as well as upgrade our trains, allowing us to get the Ore from the Plains. With a then-total of 4 Ore, the tank would become Expensive while actually performing better.

There's an alternative, though. We could revise the tank to have no armour and no machine guns. Why is this useful, you ask? Because then we get Expensive but mechanised artillery. The removal of armour means it'll require less Ore, meaning an Expense point will be dropped. Since cheap artillery isn't that useful to begin with, this would without a doubt be an upgrade and one with a 100% chance of success.

Glory to Arstotzka.

[tryrar]

Why are you assuming 6666666 rolls?

Why are you assuming 2121212 rolls?

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way, and that the T15 is still very expensive.  But the T15 doesn't work in the desert. It's already bloody hot in the plains, it will be outright deadly in the desert. Combine that with water shortages, and our tank will be a very expensive coffin.

Reread the new rules and you're right, it doesn't work that way. Revising the treads would still make it Expensive. Alternatively, we could revise the engine again, making it smaller, more efficient, and give off less heat. This'll make the tank more comfortable as well as upgrade our trains, allowing us to get the Ore from the Plains. With a then-total of 4 Ore, the tank would become Expensive while actually performing better.

There's an alternative, though. We could revise the tank to have no armour and no machine guns. Why is this useful, you ask? Because then we get Expensive but mechanised artillery. The removal of armour means it'll require less Ore, meaning an Expense point will be dropped. Since cheap artillery isn't that useful to begin with, this would without a doubt be an upgrade and one with a 100% chance of success.

What we're trying to say is the entire design is a dead end and should be dropped once we get proper gas-powered vehicles. It was actually a good stopgap measure, but it's now served its purpose.

On a side note, I'm actually undecided on the 20mm or the 35mm. We can use both in tanks, but the 35mm is a better AT weapon while the 20mm can also be a step towards aircraft as a main gun on a fighter or something. Right now I'm staying with the 35mm, but I can be convinced the other way . So convince me!

[10ebbor10]

There's an alternative, though. We could revise the tank to have no armour and no machine guns. Why is this useful, you ask? Because then we get Expensive but mechanised artillery. The removal of armour means it'll require less Ore, meaning an Expense point will be dropped. Since cheap artillery isn't that useful to begin with, this would without a doubt be an upgrade and one with a 100% chance of success.

It would still be a massive target, being a steam locomotive. And no armor means boiler explosion by whatever shoots at it.

On a side note, I'm actually undecided on the 20mm or the 35mm. We can use both in tanks, but the 35mm is a better AT weapon while the 20mm can also be a step towards aircraft as a main gun on a fighter or something. Right now I'm staying with the 35mm, but I can be convinced the other way . So convince me!

The 20 mm is flexibility, being both usefull against current and future traits. The 35 mm is a better solution to a much more focused problem.

[Andres]

What we're trying to say is the entire design is a dead end and should be dropped once we get proper gas-powered vehicles. It was actually a good stopgap measure, but it's now served its purpose.

On a side note, I'm actually undecided on the 20mm or the 35mm. We can use both in tanks, but the 35mm is a better AT weapon while the 20mm can also be a step towards aircraft as a main gun on a fighter or something. Right now I'm staying with the 35mm, but I can be convinced the other way . So convince me!

We don't have enough Oil to be able to power our tank, nor can we ever unless we also capture the Jungle and then get another trade deal. Switching our tank to use Oil will only add another Expense point, driving it to National Project or Very Expensive depending on if we revise its treads or not. It'll need several years before the next trade deal, the capture of the Jungle, and/or a better way to get more Oil/increase our engine efficiency. It's much faster to just make a better steam engine.

The 20mm is light enough that we can use it in the Jungle and even the Mountains. Moreover, we're only dealing with AC-level armour so a big, anti-tank cannon isn't really necessary.

Glory to Arstotzka.

It would still be a massive target, being a steam locomotive. And no armor means boiler explosion by whatever shoots at it.

Unlike the tank, this mechanised artillery would be in the back where our current artillery is. Unless I'm mistaken, our artillery is never in immediate threat of being shot at.

EDIT: Maybe the autocannon is actually better than the AT cannon? The ATC needs to be reloaded after every shot and with its single shot it needs to hit a moving target. Aiming at the Struunk with an autocannon is much easier.

[Aseaheru]

Spoiler: Proposals (click to show/hide)

AS-AT18-35  (High velocity 35 mm tank gun)
+ Should be an effective solution against enemy tanks for the near future
+ Precursor to medium-light tank
+ Largest sensible name yet

AS-AC1918 (20 mm Autocannon)
+ Should be an effective solution against enemy tanks for the near future
+ Finally resolves the fact that we don't actually have a machine gun anyone can carry
+ Early anti-aircraft/ Potential aircraft armament.

AS-R18  (Bolt action sniper rifle)
+ Should be adequate against enemy armor
+ Good in mountains and other places were snipers are useful

AS-RH18-320
+ Can attack enemy resource production in the desert
+ Battleship precursor
+ Really big gun

Arstotzka-class Gunboat
- No numbers in the name
+ Creates navy

AS-SAR17. (Semi-auto Battle Rifle)
+ Resolves our infantry disadvantage
+ Unlikely to fail, considering all precursor technologies were already developed

Spoiler: Votes (click to show/hide)

AS-AT18-35 : Andrea, UR(1), tryrar
AS-AC1918: 10ebbor10, Andres (2), Asea
Arstotzka-class Gunboat : Sheb
AS-SAR17 : Andres (1), Hiddenleafguy
AS-R18 : UR(2)

Voting for the autocannon.

 The tankgun is alright, but the autocannon can fill many of its roles (including use in tanks). The sniper is still in 12.7mm, which I have already said why I dont like it in years past(Plus we can design one thats even better with 20mm). The gunboat wont be much use until we get all of the jungle. The AS-RH18-320 will be inaccurate until we get our own radio, or else use it so close to our lines that its main advantages are negated. Finally, the battle rifle. If this was a revision to our carbine I would be fine with it. However, as its own design its... duplication.

-twin ninja edit-

 If we hold the plains we get some ore and oil. Remember that.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Why are you assuming 2121212 rolls?

It is not assuming. It is knowing that it can happen.

Every design proposed here will stay somewhat useful even with horrible rolls, SAR will be outright useless with anything below averaged 3. This will either demand revision or go to the bin.
It will be only marginally useful with 3-4.5 but everything else will have a noticeable impact, It will be good with 4.5-6 but everything here will be very good with such rolls.

____
I think 20mm is a wishful thinking for being portable. It will be portable with a high roll giving us  advanced Primer ignition tech, failing that I see a heavier Stallion.

[tryrar]

What we're trying to say is the entire design is a dead end and should be dropped once we get proper gas-powered vehicles. It was actually a good stopgap measure, but it's now served its purpose.

On a side note, I'm actually undecided on the 20mm or the 35mm. We can use both in tanks, but the 35mm is a better AT weapon while the 20mm can also be a step towards aircraft as a main gun on a fighter or something. Right now I'm staying with the 35mm, but I can be convinced the other way . So convince me!

We don't have enough Oil to be able to power our tank, nor can we ever unless we also capture the Jungle and then get another trade deal. Switching our tank to use Oil will only add another Expense point, driving it to National Project or Very Expensive depending on if we revise its treads or not. It'll need several years before the next trade deal, the capture of the Jungle, and/or a better way to get more Oil/increase our engine efficiency. It's much faster to just make a better steam engine.

The 20mm is light enough that we can use it in the Jungle and even the Mountains. Moreover, we're only dealing with AC-level armour so a big, anti-tank cannon isn't really necessary.

Glory to Arstotzka.

It would still be a massive target, being a steam locomotive. And no armor means boiler explosion by whatever shoots at it.

Unlike the tank, this mechanised artillery would be in the back where our current artillery is. Unless I'm mistaken, our artillery is never in immediate threat of being shot at.

We can make mech artillery with a new chassis, one that doesn't completely suck. There comes a time when a design goes past its sell-by date, and drop it like a hot potato. Since we don't have a new tank yet, that's not today, but that doesn't mean we reuse it somewhere else

[tryrar]

Heh, if you change the name to AS-AC18-20 I'll change my vote. We should standardize these names like that.

[Andres]

Ok, so the T15, the Struunk, and the SPAT are all Very Expensive. If we get 1 more Ore, the T15 becomes merely Expensive.

According to the rules, an Expensive weapon can be fielded once per squad (5 to 10 soldiers) while a Very Expensive weapon can be fielded once per 100 soldiers. By that logic, we can increase the amount of T15s we have by ten or twenty times the amount, outnumbering the Struunks and SPATs combined. All we have to do is revise our steam engine so our trains can get the Ore from the Plains.

Heh, if you change the name to AS-AC18-20 I'll change my vote. We should standardize these names like that.

Maybe /20 instead of -20?

[andrea]

Done!

Spoiler:  big image, it is an A3 sheet (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: PDF link (click to show/hide)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B28pQtqtB7QHd3ZMM3poaElaa1E/view?usp=sharing

notes
1)how to resize?
2)the cyrillic A proposed for the currency looks exactly like a normal A. do we go with it, or pick another?
3) anything you think needs corrected?