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[Aseaheru]

Yep.

[Sheb]

Another great idea for Kot's art: pimpy armored car full of precious metal and gems.

[Aseaheru]

 So long as it looks sorta like a ferret armored car.

 Except... We sorta lost our turret on that? Odd. I had been thinking that it needed to be open to fire, but we dont seem to have one at all... Well, thats gonna be in the  eventual redesign.

[Andres]

11) Assault rifle
+Very useful in Jungle and urban environments, marginally useful in Mountains
- Useless in the open Desert (unless sidecar guys can use it)

12) Designed uniform (body armour + ghillie suits)

+ Useful in literally every theatre of war
+ Negates enemy Cascade advantage
+ Improved ambushes

Moskurg citizens use Cascades for self-defence and getting body armour which can stop 9mm pistol rounds should greatly increase troop survivability in the cities.

Glory to Arstotzka.

[QuakeIV]

I was rushing because I was near the end of a lunch break >.>

I'll just not post if I don't have the time to look up everything I need to I guess.

[Kot]

11) Assault rifle
+Very useful in Jungle and urban environments, marginally useful in Mountains
- Useless in the open Desert (unless sidecar guys can use it)

12) Designed uniform (body armour + ghillie suits)

+ Useful in literally every theatre of war
+ Negates enemy Cascade advantage
+ Improved ambushes

Moskurg citizens use Cascades for self-defence and getting body armour which can stop 9mm pistol rounds should greatly increase troop survivability in the cities.

Glory to Arstotzka.

We don't actually need body-armor for everyone, we could make steel armor for just shocktroops, like, again, glorious Soviet comrades (or WWI Germans). It would actually be better, as having everyone running around in it (I don't think we could make Kevlar yet, it's 60s thing and those silk stuff that was made before is proably useless at longer-than-stabbing range) would hamper our abilities, especially in desert. Also, couldn't it be squeezed into revision? :<

[Andres]

We don't actually need body-armor for everyone, we could make steel armor for just shocktroops, like, again, glorious Soviet comrades (or WWI Germans). It would actually be better, as having everyone running around in it (I don't think we could make Kevlar yet, it's 60s thing and those silk stuff that was made before is proably useless at longer-than-stabbing range) would hamper our abilities, especially in desert. Also, couldn't it be squeezed into revision? :<

Our current armour was made in the previous decade and it was reported that it was effective at stopping flak. Sensei flat-out said that if we want the armour to stop machine gun rounds it has to be put through Design. We tried doing it through Revision but all it did was make it lighter.

EDIT: Oh yeah! I talked to Stirk about it and he said the idea was plausible. Let me bring up the quotes.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Personal armor is silly unless you have cheap kevlar you will never design anything that can stop a bullet. Armor on photo above is anti-shrapnel and had little chance to stop MP40 from killing you

[Andres]

It's definitely possible. Just let me bring up the conversation I had with Stirk about it. Ned Kelly proved the concept was possible back in the last century at least.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Silk armor?  Expensive as hell.

[Andres]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So the armour that Ned Kelley wore managed to completely deflect full-frontal bullets from the era. Would they be able to stop a .30 cal revolver from ~1910-1920? Would a similar suit with 1910/1920 armour be able to do so?

If it matters, the revolver fires full-sized rifle bullets.

Sorry for taking so long to get this! It is a really fun question, I just had a long day at work and couldn't type this up on my phone.

Question 1: Would Kelly's armor be able to stop a .30 cal from the 1900s?

Answer: A hesitant "no". Judging from descriptions of the event, pictures of the armor, and my own estimates, the plow armor he made was barley able to block the firearms used against it. I couldn't find the exact models, unfortunately. The period between his death and the 1920s was actually a very huge period for firearms! Most importantly for this question, we finally found something better then the ancient black powder during this time, replacing it in all new firearms with "smokless powder" (what we call it in 'merica). I wanted to compare a black powder .30 to the .30 cal you want to use, but am not sure what you mean (.30 carbine? 30-06? 30-30? .308?), so I will use some more famous guns. The .45 Colt (used in the famous Peacemaker made in 1872) had a velocity of 960 feet/s and an energy of 620J while the .45 ACP (Made for the M1911 in 1904) had a velocity of 1,225 feet/s and 835J. That should give you a general idea of how this powder improved the penetration of these guns significantly, making the armor that was holding out against the old guns break like paper. So if he was a 1920s gangster instead of an Old West one, trying to make the armor or stealing it from the museum would have gotten him killed even faster.

Similar suit:

Probably yes! There was actually several (professionally done) suits that where able supposed to block even bullets from a machine gun (A Lewis gun, to be exact, at a good distance. It was probably a  .30-06 Springfield, since it was American armor, but I am just guessing that fact). In fact, the Brewster Body Shield resembles it in many ways. These are not something you could throw together on the farm, of course, but someone who knows what they are doing and has decent resources available could put one together. Pistol bullets aren't really great at piercing any kind of metal, even a thin target on the range can take some abuse.

Of course, you don't remember men in suits of armor marching around the trenches of WWI do you? Well, there is a reason for that. As I have forgot to mention before, a good way to see how useful an idea was is to see what militaries use it even today. As you may have noticed in all the stories about criminals with super-heavy encumbering body armor, they all died anyway. Wearing 40 pounds of armor makes you more of a target, when in reality, it is better to not get hit at all. Hiding behind cover works better then trying to bring it with you!

I hope that answers your question.

By .30 cal I meant something you'd find in a battle rifle. The Mosin Nagant, for example.

In what situations would such a suit of body armour be useful?

But yeah, this has been really helpful. Thanks for getting back to me on this.

Eh, that is a little harder to compare then. Most black powder rifles where higher caliber, due to the lower velocity and energy thing. In a rifle, the round would get 2,610 feet/second and 3,593J (Going by the Mosin Nagant example), but wouldn't be *that* good in a pistol. Again, if you compare that to the Peacemaker (one of the higher-caliber more advanced guns, what they used against Kelly was probably even less), which still has 960 feet/s and an energy of 620J, there is no comparison. Rifles>pistols in terms of penetration and energy, so it looks a lot more impressive.

((Do note that these stats are taking from random bullet weight/ grain, you can get 3,779 J from a hotter 7.62×54mmR load for the Nagant.))

Heavy-body armor is generally useful when you can't have cover or move. Helicopter and Bomber pilots, for example, though 40 pounds would probably throw their driving off  . Other static-type Infantry like machine-gunners and Sentries can make good use of body armor too. Sometimes they issue heavier armor to naval/AA gun crews, and Infantry that rides on tanks. Basically, when you either don't have to move yourself or have something that moves for you. And that is just for military use, police forces naturally have to have more protective gear for riot-control, bomb disposal, etc.

I am not sure what any of that has to do with revolvers though  . It should be noted that distance is very important. For example, in the time period specified, many Gangsters used cloth vests capable of stopping .45 ACP at a distance. Handguns really don't have a lot of piercing potential by design.

[10ebbor10]

My primary problem that is that the ability to move seems quite essential for our infantry.

[andrea]

indeed. A better solution to the problem of fighting in the cities would be removing the cities.

How does a 3000 mm artillery piece sound to you?

[10ebbor10]

I hope you added a zero to much to that.

[Kot]

Personal armor is silly unless you have cheap kevlar you will never design anything that can stop a bullet. Armor on photo above is anti-shrapnel and had little chance to stop MP40 from killing you

Actually no, Steel bib (the armor on photo) had a great chance (almost 100% as of version SN-42) of stopping MP40 bullets at 10-100m unless special, steel core ammo was used (but that was created later on in the war), which was proven by Soviets at Stalingrad. Mentioned Brewster Body Shield existed, and also German Infanterie-Panzer armor (though I can't get hold on how useful it was) from late WWI did.

My primary problem that is that the ability to move seems quite essential for our infantry.

This is why I proposed we give it only to shocktroops dealing with fighting Moskurgans in their cities. It should be expensive, at least.

HOLY GOD-EMPEROR SHIT-PANTS PEOPLE NEW REPLY NEW REPLY NEW REPLY WARNING WARNING ARGHHH