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Author Topic: Arms Race, OOC [Completed] Now with Arms Race III, against another forum!  (Read 234993 times)

Andres

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Re: Arms Race, OOC Thread
« Reply #225 on: July 27, 2015, 03:33:19 am »

-Nobody really voted much on flags. I guess I'll just pick my favorite for each side. For Arstotzka that would be one of Andres' last few, for Moskurg, a harder decision but I'll pore over them.
I took this to mean he'd pick his favourite of each faction and then decide which was better.
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Aseaheru

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Re: Arms Race, OOC Thread
« Reply #226 on: July 27, 2015, 03:36:45 am »

The country with the most glorious flag by the 1916 Battle Report will receive an extra spy. If there are multiple flags submitted for a country, citizens must nominate one as theirs. Do take care to keep your spy alive, they will not be automatically replaced.
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Andres

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Re: Arms Race, OOC Thread
« Reply #227 on: July 27, 2015, 03:54:57 am »

Yeah but he said the citizens would nominate them. I thought that meant he'd pick his favourite and compare it to his favourite from the other team.
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Sensei

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Re: Arms Race, OOC Thread
« Reply #228 on: July 27, 2015, 06:04:19 am »

First, the fun festivities! Which country has the most Glorious flag?

Arstotzka:

(Sorry Aseaheru, I'm counting Andres' expression of pride over his last flags as a determining vote, since he submitted them. And they don't have artifacts.) For the record, every Arstotzkan soldier has two of these on their head. On little sticks.

Moskurg:


It's a tough call. Arstotzka has cyrillic, and glory as a stated motivation. Moskurg has swords as well as a tiger. Ultimately, I must say I like the detail on Moskurg's flag. Agent codenamed "Tiger Fucker" joins their ranks.

The Antegria Contract
Moskurg has declined to submit a weapon for Antegria's machine gun contract, planning to align themselves politically with the allies. Arstotzka submits the AS-1910 Mag. Antegria is happy to have a cheap, reliable machine gun and puts it into production immediately. Already, an oil tanker is bound for Arstotzka and the oil will be available for 1917 production. Antegrian AS-1910's are of slightly poorer workmanship than the genuine article, but they work. Arstotzka earns a mixed reputation among the arms market, but at least their name is known.

About Research Facilities
The GM is never going to give one of the teams 2 design slots and the other 1. It's simply not going to happen.
Yeah, that's pretty much the case. It would make too drastic a power gap. My original plan was (and potentially still is) to give both nations an extra research facility when it starts to look like keeping up to date with their full variety of military hardware is too difficult. However, I've found that one design and one revision per turn is enough work (in terms of my own reading and writing) that I might not want to do two per nation per turn, lest the game slow to a crawl.

What I may do is offer Design Credits and Revision Credits as rewards for... well, we'll see. Possibly capturing enemy technology on the battlefield, possibly special espionage actions. These would let you do one extra design or revision in a year, but only once per credit.

Penetrating 20mm of armor? Absurd!
How do you think our glorious nation can afford so much steel armor? Let me let you in on a little secret, friend. It is actually an alloy with a disturbing amount of nickel and tin. At least, that's also going to be my explanation next time I'm caught naming a slightly unrealistic armor thickness and performance. Your armor technology will become more effective per-thickness as it ages and improves though.

If I make too many mistakes of this nature, I will simply be forced to show my "Not a bloody firearms historian" badge.

A New-ish Cost System
First, I'm establishing numeric labels for expense levels: 1 is Expensive, 2 is Very Expensive, and 3 is A National Effort.
Inexpensive equipment could be given to every soldier, if you want. Cheap vehicles means everyone can ride around in one instead of marching. Expensive equipment can be given to officers, or one per squad (5-10 soldiers). Expensive Vehicles means a pretty good number can be used for support. Very Expensive equipment can be used by special squads only, about 1 in 100 soldiers. Very Expensive vehicles are few and far between on the battlefield, or there are only a couple squads. Your nation can only deploy one National Effort at a time. It had better be an aircraft carrier, or a nuke, or a giant walking robot if you want this to be worth it. If you have multiple weapons at a price tier, then soldiers/squads choose one for the situation. Some weapons, EG crewed machine guns and artillery, don't benefit much from being Inexpensive because there aren't many situations where you'd want everyone using one.

You might gain an Expense Credit for a certain type of unit, reducing the expense by 1- for example, if High Command desperately wants an airplane, they'll offer an expense credit for it, which might reduce your new bomber from A National Effort to Very Expensive. Monetary gains from trade will be represented this way.

Instead of labeling things as "Expensive because of being large", or what have you, I'm going to name an ore an oil requirement numerically for products. This way I won't have to update item descriptions as a nation's resources change. For example, a car might cost Oil 2, Ore 3. If your nation has Ore 2, Oil 1, a product which costs Ore 3, Oil 2 gains two expense levels, becoming Very Expensive. If it's also Complex, that's three expense levels (A National Effort). A second expense level is gained when the cost of single resource exceeds your supply by 3. For instance, if you have 1 ore, then 2 ore is Expensive, 3 ore is still Expensive, and 4 ore is Very Expensive. Ore represents total mining effort, so if you have a gun made of a rare or difficult to mine metal (let's say titanium) it might have an ore cost of 2 or 3 despite being only a rifle. If a large truck can be made mostly from low-quality steel, it might be cheaper. See also: 20mm armor that gets penetrated by small arms fire.

I might add technology later to increase the resources available from your home territory- I'll think about it. As usual, I'm still working on this whole system, constructive criticism is welcome. The main gap I still have is that I have no idea what it means for a train to be Expensive, or Very Expensive. For now I'm ignoring train cost and assuming that new technologies are either cost effective or considered failures automatically.

1916 Battle Report
Now with resource costs! If an item is not stated to have an ore/oil cost, assume it to be 1 (effectively zero, countries will not have less than 1). Tell me if it looks like I missed anything egregious.

Arstotzka's army now contains the following:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Moskurg's army now contains the following:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm pretty sure I didn't label the Struunk as being Very Expensive. It was, or at least it was in my head, which is why its performance was described in anecdotes rather than a broad description of performance. I apologize for the confusion. Maybe you can sue me for a research credit in the Bay 12 Courtroom or something.

Now, onto the main event. The Moskurgs, who are definitely not Moskburgs, spent the entire year fine tuning their SPAT, Self Propelled Anti-Tank, which is really just a mobile Bombardier emplacement. If they sort out the motor expense, and the unreliability, they can phase out horse-drawn Bombardiers entirely. The Arstotzkan engineers have been working to introduce a revolutionary sub-machine gun, the AS-MC16. It's currently expensive, but it might still playable a valuable part in this year's fighting. They also added some proper recoil compensation to their artillery.

I'm sure you're all dying to hear about the armor and trench fighting in the plains, so naturally I'm going to start in the jungle again. The AS-MC16 is Arstotzka's answer to the M2 Brumby here. Typical Moskurg tactics involve getting as close as possible to Arstotzkan troops before opening fire. Officers wielding MC-16's rack up a significant number of kills, in mobile fights and close range ambushes. The rapid fire and large magazine allows a single soldier to attack a number of enemies at close range where kills are assured. The gun does suffer some jamming, but the mechanical work is the tightest Arstotzka has yet accomplished. Arstotzka gains ground. Some of the fighting is in areas patrolled by Struunk I's, while the Struunk armor is imperfect a Struunk crew is mobile with two machine guns, and if it encounters a group of Arstotzkan scouts on the move, has them significantly outgunned. The AS-MC16 is no use against armor. Struunk patrols are sometimes interrupted by roads full of artillery craters.

In the mountains, the new AS-MC16 sees the least use. There are simply too many long-range engagements and officers prefer an F14 or a good, reliable Nosin. The stalemate here continues. Agent Hairy Pickle attempts to rig Moskurg mining explosives to destroy their own mines, making 14 identical time bombs, which are disarmed on 13 occasions by the fast actions of brave Moskurg demolition engineers, and on one occasion by spilled coffee.

The plains play host to some interesting developments. The SPAT is specifically designed to destroy the AS-T15, marking the first armor-to-armor warfare. Both vehicles have more firepower than armor, so when one encounters the other, it is a question of who can get an accurate shot off first. The AS-T15 has a slightly faster and more accurate gun, but usually the victor is whoever is on the offensive. The SPAT is also much more able to rotate, and beats AS-T15s in sidelong engagements. Both armored vehicles are still vulnerable without close infantry support. Unless Arstotzkan troops are pinned behind their tank with a machine gun, they can take rifle shots at a SPAT crew through the armor gaps. The fates that await an AS-T15 surround by Moskurg infantry have been discussed at length previously. Arstotzka has an armor advantage overall, but the AS-MC16 is also a big deciding factor. In fights close around tanks or in the trenches, Moskurg troops are shocked by a sudden and ferocious assault from the new machine gun so portable it can be used in trench fighting. Arstotzka gains ground in the trenches again, the fight is now well in their favor there.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 02:47:29 pm by Sensei »
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Sheb

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Re: Arms Race, OOC Thread
« Reply #229 on: July 27, 2015, 06:08:01 am »

Could we have some kind of map, or ruler, or any other way to know whos winning in each theater (and not whos simply making progress one particular year)?
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Taricus

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Re: Arms Race, OOC Thread
« Reply #230 on: July 27, 2015, 06:16:27 am »

Presumably we'd get a credit for partially completed projects then?
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Sensei

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Re: Arms Race, OOC Thread
« Reply #231 on: July 27, 2015, 06:19:10 am »

Could we have some kind of map, or ruler, or any other way to know whos winning in each theater (and not whos simply making progress one particular year)?
Mountains: Arstotzka 2, Moskurg 2
Jungle: Arstotzka 3, Moskurg 2 1
Plains: Arstotzka 3, Moskurg 2 1

Presumably we'd get a credit for partially completed projects then?
No. Technology [Partial] gives you a better chance of success next time you attempt the same tech, but not an extra design or revision action. Otherwise I might as well just re-roll then and there.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 03:19:35 am by Sensei »
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Taricus

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Re: Arms Race, OOC Thread
« Reply #232 on: July 27, 2015, 06:26:29 am »

Hum, fair enough then. Also I have to ask how the arstotzkan tank can actually get far, doesn't seem like it can carry a lot of fuel.
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Andres

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Re: Arms Race, OOC Thread
« Reply #233 on: July 27, 2015, 06:27:32 am »

There is a problem. Before, our 1910 was small enough that its size didn't factor into its Expense while the Stallion was large enough that its size did. Now they're both effectively the same size, which shouldn't be the case.

Could we have some kind of map, or ruler, or any other way to know whos winning in each theater (and not whos simply making progress one particular year)?
Mountains: Arstotzka 2, Moskurg 2
Jungle: Arstotzka 3, Moskurg 2
Plains: Arstotzka 3, Moskurg 2
This can't be right. Last year we made "great gains" and this year we merely made "gains". We should have 4 at least.

Hum, fair enough then. Also I have to ask how the arstotzkan tank can actually get far, doesn't seem like it can carry a lot of fuel.
We upgraded our engine.

Glory to Arstotzka.

EDIT: Doesn't our very portable and ubiquitous (costs 1 Ore) Light Mortar help with taking out the SPATs?
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Sensei

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Re: Arms Race, OOC Thread
« Reply #234 on: July 27, 2015, 06:35:36 am »

There is a problem. Before, our 1910 was small enough that its size didn't factor into its Expense while the Stallion was large enough that its size did. Now they're both effectively the same size, which shouldn't be the case.
This has got to do with you having more metal at the time, mainly. I know it's not really in line with the description, but I already said that the stallion reduced in cost when the Moskurgs gained one ore.

Quote
This can't be right. Last year we made "great gains" and this year we merely made "gains". We should have 4 at least.
Moskurg had 4/4, their boots were crunching on frozen grass. One more turn and they'd have started exploiting resources. At least, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :P

Hum, fair enough then. Also I have to ask how the arstotzkan tank can actually get far, doesn't seem like it can carry a lot of fuel.
It's a full-length steam train boiler with coal packed in a few feet space either side. That's a ton of coal. Maybe multiple tons. You can also reasonably imagine them being resupplied, it's a whole year of fighting.
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Taricus

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Re: Arms Race, OOC Thread
« Reply #235 on: July 27, 2015, 06:37:56 am »

I can imagine them being resupplied. I can't imagine them having a good operational range.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Arms Race, OOC Thread
« Reply #236 on: July 27, 2015, 06:39:47 am »

Who needs good operational range in trench warfare?
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Taricus

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Re: Arms Race, OOC Thread
« Reply #237 on: July 27, 2015, 06:40:38 am »

When the reserves start pouring in.
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Andres

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Re: Arms Race, OOC Thread
« Reply #238 on: July 27, 2015, 06:44:40 am »

Quote
This can't be right. Last year we made "great gains" and this year we merely made "gains". We should have 4 at least.
Moskurg had 4/4, their boots were crunching on frozen grass. One more turn and they'd have started exploiting resources. At least, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :P
You mean 5/5, right? Plains is currently split with Arstotzka having 3/5 and Moskurg having 2/5. So to get resources from the Plains, Arstotzka has to have 6/5?

EDIT: The year where Moskurg got to frost was 1912. In 1913, our armour and our now-working artillery let us gain ground. We should be at 6/5 by now.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 07:59:35 am by Andres »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Arms Race, OOC Thread
« Reply #239 on: July 27, 2015, 06:51:43 am »

When the reserves start pouring in.
What reserves?

I'm pretty sure our current tactic is :

1) Rolling Barrage of Artillery fire + Tank/Infantry charge
2) Artillery continues it's barrage to suppress further enemy trenches
3) Install our overabundance of artillery and machine guns (literally, we have tons of those.)
4) Replace crew, fill up coal and water, repeat.

EDIT: Doesn't our very portable and ubiquitous (costs 1 Ore) Light Mortar help with taking out the SPATs?
It probably does, since certainly it isn't our tanks doing the heavy lifting, with their 10:1 numerical disadvantage. Probably some artillery as well.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 06:53:58 am by 10ebbor10 »
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