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[Kazturkey]

I've recently been building an above-ground fortress with the population cap at 180. It consists of a central keep, a barracks, a multi-floor "apartment complex" and a large number of two-floor workshops, ground floor being the workshop and the first floor being a nice bedroom assigned to the dwarf who has been assigned the workshop. Despite being a couple of tiles away from a dark tower, I've yet to see a siege, so I was wondering if anyone has any experience with how a non-subterranean fort deals with invaders after the inclusion of climbing - how many z-levels do my outer walls need to be? 3? 5?

Additionally, I'm rapidly running out of space. This is less of a problem than the former, as unskilled migrants make excellent sacrifices to Armok. I might build them a slum at the bottom of the hill so they can be butchered by invaders as a form of "early warning" system (or speedbump).

[Broseph Stalin]

You don't need high walls if you have an overhang.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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The beds above the dining area are unassigned, losers sleep in them. There are 48 individual bedrooms, eight noble apartments, and the tower goes as high as I want it to.

[Kazturkey]

Ahh, very clever: if I build a tile outward the invaders can't climb diagonally backward? I assume your workshops and major stockpile are below-ground, while it's more efficient your way, I'm restricting myself to only farming and mining underground (and farming will move above ground as soon as above ground crops start to make sense to me...), bar some farming related 'shops sitting next to the farms for efficiency.

[Bumber]

You don't need high walls if you have an overhang.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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The beds above the dining area are unassigned, losers sleep in them. There are 48 individual bedrooms, eight noble apartments, and the tower goes as high as I want it to.

Unsafe. Climbers can move diagonally upward and latch onto the side of your fortifications. Furthermore, they could then at that point jump straight through your fortifications if they were actually smart enough to do so.

Make the overhang one tile wider. (Curse you for making me count the width of your fort due to the different zoom levels, BTW.)

[ImagoDeo]

You don't need high walls if you have an overhang.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

+1
0

The beds above the dining area are unassigned, losers sleep in them. There are 48 individual bedrooms, eight noble apartments, and the tower goes as high as I want it to.

Unsafe. Climbers can move diagonally upward and latch onto the side of your fortifications. Furthermore, they could then at that point jump straight through your fortifications if they were actually smart enough to do so.

Make the overhang one tile wider. (Curse you for making me count the width of your fort due to the different zoom levels, BTW.)

Can't creatures also hold directly above them? I'm pretty sure I've done that at least once in adventure mode.

Plus, stone blocks are supposed to be un-climbable. I dunno.

[Broseph Stalin]

Unsafe. Climbers can move diagonally upward and latch onto the side of your fortifications. Furthermore, they could then at that point jump straight through your fortifications if they were actually smart enough to do so.

Make the overhang one tile wider. (Curse you for making me count the width of your fort due to the different zoom levels, BTW.)

That's odd, I don't think I've ever had an enemy try to climb this design.

Ahh, very clever: if I build a tile outward the invaders can't climb diagonally backward? I assume your workshops and major stockpile are below-ground, while it's more efficient your way, I'm restricting myself to only farming and mining underground (and farming will move above ground as soon as above ground crops start to make sense to me...), bar some farming related 'shops sitting next to the farms for efficiency.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-1

Can't creatures also hold directly above them? I'm pretty sure I've done that at least once in adventure mode.

Plus, stone blocks are supposed to be un-climbable. I dunno.

Stone Blocks are difficult to climb smoothed stone is impossible to climb.

[vjmdhzgr]

Smooth stone towers are impossible to climb, but you can climb over anything regardless of skill or wall material if it's only one tile high.

[Broseph Stalin]

Smooth stone towers are impossible to climb, but you can climb over anything regardless of skill or wall material if it's only one tile high.

Are you sure? You can climb one tile without a check but when I last checked you couldn't even hold smoothed wall to attempt a climb.

[vjmdhzgr]

Smooth stone towers are impossible to climb, but you can climb over anything regardless of skill or wall material if it's only one tile high.

Are you sure? You can climb one tile without a check but when I last checked you couldn't even hold smoothed wall to attempt a climb.

I recall being able to. I remember some weird pit in the ground I spawned in on a weird adventurer world, and it was really deep and had smoothed walls the whole way, I was able to climb up them, but only one tile before immediately falling. It took me a while to remember smoothed walls couldn't be climbed.

[Bumber]

Can't creatures also hold directly above them? I'm pretty sure I've done that at least once in adventure mode.

Only for trees, I think. Anything else requires a wall to grab on the level above. Can't grab onto floor tiles either.

[Robsoie]

Speaking about walls, have anyone seen goblin invaders actually climb over your fortress walls ?

Since i play df2014 i never observed this once, i know they're supposed to be able to climb but for the few times gobs went to my many df2014 forts they always seem to behave the same as all the past version : as long as i don't lower the bridge, they just wait outside my fortress and never try to get over the walls.

I could understand if i had smoothed stone walls or very high one, but as i have been always eagerly waiting for gobs to climb i always only made 1 tile high wooden walls in all my forts, and ... gobs never even try to climb them.

Now my dwarves do, unfortunately as they never needed to climb in any of my forts, even if it seems dwarves stuck on a wall top have no idea on how to climb down if not teleported down with dfhack.

[Albedo]

Plus, stone blocks are supposed to be un-climbable. I dunno.

Not true afaiu - walls made of stone blocks are ~harder~ to climb than ones built of "rough stone"*, but only smoothed, natural stone walls are "un-climbable".

(* Don't know if that makes a lower % of successful climbing attempts, or is a hard cutpoint depending on the "skill" of the climber. If the former, then it's far less helpful, as it becomes only a matter of time.)

[Broseph Stalin]

Not true afaiu - walls made of stone blocks are ~harder~ to climb than ones built of "rough stone"*, but only smoothed, natural stone walls are "un-climbable".

(* Don't know if that makes a lower % of successful climbing attempts, or is a hard cutpoint depending on the "skill" of the climber. If the former, then it's far less helpful, as it becomes only a matter of time.)

Checks are harder.

Speaking about walls, have anyone seen goblin invaders actually climb over your fortress walls ?

Since i play df2014 i never observed this once, i know they're supposed to be able to climb but for the few times gobs went to my many df2014 forts they always seem to behave the same as all the past version : as long as i don't lower the bridge, they just wait outside my fortress and never try to get over the walls.

I could understand if i had smoothed stone walls or very high one, but as i have been always eagerly waiting for gobs to climb i always only made 1 tile high wooden walls in all my forts, and ... gobs never even try to climb them.

Now my dwarves do, unfortunately as they never needed to climb in any of my forts, even if it seems dwarves stuck on a wall top have no idea on how to climb down if not teleported down with dfhack.

I've had 1-tile high walls climbed by invaders but they've never tried to get over my wall + fortification lip design.

[blue sam3]

For the wall thing: also make sure to clear cut any trees that are anywhere near the walls, and pave over the ground to stop more growing. Having the invaders climb a tree and jump over your perfectly impassible walls is less than ideal.

[Bumber]

Speaking about walls, have anyone seen goblin invaders actually climb over your fortress walls ?

Since i play df2014 i never observed this once, i know they're supposed to be able to climb but for the few times gobs went to my many df2014 forts they always seem to behave the same as all the past version : as long as i don't lower the bridge, they just wait outside my fortress and never try to get over the walls.

I could understand if i had smoothed stone walls or very high one, but as i have been always eagerly waiting for gobs to climb i always only made 1 tile high wooden walls in all my forts, and ... gobs never even try to climb them.

Now my dwarves do, unfortunately as they never needed to climb in any of my forts, even if it seems dwarves stuck on a wall top have no idea on how to climb down if not teleported down with dfhack.

They'll only climb while fleeing or if they can see a target on the other side and they don't have a sufficiently short route. Dwarves won't ever climb to take a job, but they might to get back the meeting hall or somewhere if stuck. (I'm fairly certain people have got it working somewhat reliably for the purposes of Dwarven Childcare.) It's extremely limited due to the pathing being so CPU intensive.