Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Avin]

I've run into an issue with my military from time to time where very experienced dwarfs seem to be slain by seemingly trivial threats regardless of the sophistication of their armor or skill.

The question I'm looking to ask I guess is, does it really make a significant difference what armor and how many pieces my dwarfs are equipped with? I ask this because I've spent considerable effort going through the wiki and setting the uniform for my dwarfs so that they have every possible layer on every possible armor location maxed out but the first copper sword they encounter stabs them right through the chest should the fail to block, dodge, or parry it. What's most troubling about this is when that armor is made from steel or cotton candy.

What its starting to make me feel like is that I need to worry more about my military's dodge and block skills more than the actual equipment that they carry and that seems odd to me. I wonder if perhaps this may just be the exception and that I'm over analyzing the deaths of my legendary warriors so any feed back would be useful.

Thansk

[Arkansan]

From my experience it seems like the dwarves skills are far more important than their armor. I'd rather them be decked out in leather gear with a shield and badass weapon skills.

[Airgeoff]

Can you be more specific in terms of how much armor they have on (so much they are slow doesn't help) and which skills you are talking about.?

[LordUbik]

The equipment,  in my opinion, is important as far as the skills of the warrion in question.

In your case, i can only suggest a couple of things:
1- quality over quantity. A normal combination of breastplate+mail shirt of high quality and of high level material works far better than 18 layers of crappyness.
2- quantity can be a disadvantage. The added weight of tons of armor makes the dwarf pretty useless, if he's not a really high level armor user. The slow down effect can cripple his ability to move and, more important, his endurance. A tired dwarf is a dead dwarf in combat, because he'll be slower and less efficent in dodging and parrying.

So, go with lighter equipment of higher quality and you'll be much safer. Obviously even a masterwork adamantine armor can fail your legendary axedwarf, nothing can stop the dreaded RNG.

[Avin]

So, go with lighter equipment of higher quality and you'll be much safer. Obviously even a masterwork adamantine armor can fail your legendary axedwarf, nothing can stop the dreaded RNG.

And perhaps that's the issue that I just happen to encounter more than I'd expect to. When my legendary ax dwarf with all his skills at 10+ gets kicked in the head and killed by a random camel he was sent to scare away its extremely disappointing. I used to load my guys up with everything they could carry but now I've come to the point that I just put a single layer over everything and hope that they'll block or dodge what they need to.

I have to wonder perhaps if there isn't some *Science!* forum somewhere that I wasn't able to locate that shows some percentages of hits actually deflected by armor as opposed to hits that score wounds.

[Finn]

Like this...

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=105095.0

[escondida]

Are you sure they're actually equipping it? If you have their uniform set to "over clothing," then they won't take off items that prevent them from donning armor. For instance, if they have shoes on, they won't equip boots until the shoes literally disintegrate off of their feet in a few years.

[Albedo]

...When my legendary ax dwarf with all his skills at 10+ gets kicked in the head and killed by a random camel he was sent to scare away its extremely disappointing...

Whoa, nobody said anything about camels! 

Seriously - Big animals are tough, and combat in DF is unforgiving. Altho' the advice above is good, I I think a (big?) part of the problem is in your mental image of the contest and expectations about how it "should" go.

Adult camels are about EIGHT times the size of a dwarf (500k vs. 60k in size), and that has a big effect on combat ability. Put that into a kick (think of a REALLY big horse kicking) and it's no surprise he got his melon stoved in - might have taken a little luck on an early/first kick, but nothing off the charts.


Any animal much bigger than a dwarf can be a serious threat, even if not "aggressive" - they'll fight if forced to, and then it is what it is.  If you can't use crossbows to soften it up from a distance (recommended!), then send a group to take it down hard and fast before it has a chance to use its strength against your dwarves.  Anything less (including "arena" contests) and you're risking exactly what you experienced.

[Sanctume]

hooves > head.
you don't want to mess with creatures who possess hoove attacks.

[QuakeIV]

That seems somewhat specious to me.  I would personally like to have faceplated helmets to prevent this sort of thing.  After a certain point the camel should just fracture every bone in its leg as punishment for trying to kick a small armored vehicles worth of armor.

[ImagoDeo]

That seems somewhat specious to me.  I would personally like to have faceplated helmets to prevent this sort of thing.  After a certain point the camel should just fracture every bone in its leg as punishment for trying to kick a small armored vehicles worth of armor.

Unfortunately Toady hasn't combined the combat attack code with the collision code yet. When that happens, as it should eventually, punching and kicking armored targets will be just as damaging to the attacker as to the victim.

[Chief10]

So, go with lighter equipment of higher quality and you'll be much safer. Obviously even a masterwork adamantine armor can fail your legendary axedwarf, nothing can stop the dreaded RNG.

What does RNG mean?

[vjmdhzgr]

Random Number God. Or Generator. Whichever.

[Albedo]

What does RNG mean?

Quite often, a prelude to controversy.

That seems somewhat specious to me.

I don't think that means what you think it means.

Unless you're confusing "common sense" w/ DF physics - always a mistake.

[PrimusRibbus]

This is a feature, not a bug. Combat in DF, particularly melee combat, is designed to always carry some risk of injury or death. Experience, equipment, strategy, and numbers all play a major role in DF combat. The mortality of any individual in DF is always a question mark, and "acceptable losses" are a factor not only with fortress militaries but with all of fortress's professions.

Bear in mind that the minute but palpable risk an animal 8x the size of a dwarf poses to your veteran military member is also the same factor that allows unarmed civilians to beat a Goblin Master Lasher to death in a last ditch fortress defense.

So to answer your question: Yes, it does matter, but no amount of skill or equipment is supposed to make a dwarf immortal.